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Discussion Starter #1
Over the last few weeks I have thought a great deal about this post. I know from the increasing amount of private email I have received and understand the reasons for your silence. I also think many of you are putting in orders for BTB bullets and never saying anything on the Forum. I have listened to your comments and have agreed and disagreed in the private email conversations. So...........Here are my feelings based on ground zero experience from years of working for the gun and ammo conpanies, military, and hunting on a lot of area. As I have said to you lately, I feel that I should remove myself from the Forum for the reasons I've stated to you.
First of all, I have said to you that this Forum was started and supported by a small dedicated group who shoot hard cast bullets. But by no means is there any reason others can't state their types of shootig.
Two...I do understand that the majority hunting is not big bears! I have tried to get someone who has killed a big bear to give their thoughts. So far none. Until I see actual experience with them, I consider what they are talking about theory! And to the young man that was badly cut up down at Palm Harbor...Those 150 sticthes have taught you the bitter lesson to use a handgun that is within your capabilities. I only wish the BS artist that sold you that gun and ammo was the one cut up! You are very lucky that your friend had that Smith .357, because you could not have survived a second pass of that Tusker with you on the ground!
Third..Yes, there are other fine firearms than just lever actions. Your pump guns and semiautos have as much place as leverguns. I have all kinds as you know. You have as much place on the Forum as any.
Yes, I believe that a 400+ pound Razorback just as danerous as a big bear! They both will kill you quick. I have no actul experience with killing a big bear. In fact the only bear I ever killed was only half grown and I killed it with a standard 45 Long Colt. So...I can only tell you what I have used over the years on hundreds of big hogs. I once saw Sonnie Youngblood ricochet a 250 gr bullet from a .35 Whelen off the shield of a big boar without killing it. The angle was acute. The hog was killed moments later. Under the shield there was at least 12 inches of bloodshot meat and two broken ribs, but he could still have killed you!
Fourth...I agree that some of the groups that are talked about done with a pistol are smaller than I can do with a rifle. However you have heard me say, forget that and pratice on a 10/12" paper plate. When you can hit that at the yardage you want, go hunting!
Fifth....Yes, buckshot does have it's place in hunting...look at it this way..There are a world of deer killed with a bow from a tree stand. You can bet that any deer in bow range is dead meat with #1, #0, #00, #000! And if you can't hit with your pistol past 50 yards, go hunting!
So.....don't let these people who shoot these big pistols intimidate you! That's their Forte! They are not killing any more game than you are, if as much. I bet it's like when the .44 Mag first came out. Those that kept them, back the ears back a little. That's why the companies dropped ther loads back! After all it's meat on the ground that counts, not paper punching.
Yes, I do have quite a few friends at Speer and Accurate Arms, They were with the old Alcan group that turned into Smith & Wesson, then went to Speer, and some like Ted Curtis on to Accurate Arms. Yes, You can depend on Ted Curtis' people to give you the straight scoop as to what bullet goes across the clock at what velocity If someone gets different readings, let them argue with the powder companies. Yes, they use actual guns and list those guns in their data. Yes, there are other good powders beside Hodgdon. Use what you have confidence in.
Yes, contrary to Northern attitudes, we run deer and hogs with dogs! Yes, I understand that game in the South is more nocturnal and dogs do get game up moving. No, I don't give a d%#*, what they say about our dogs, since they don't don't know what they are talking about and much less our traditions South!
Above all, please give the Forum a try...there are some good people on it. When you come aboard, talk abut actual experiences, not something someone is putting out to sell specialized products. You might just find others then come aboard. Yes. I will always try to answer your questions based on what I have seen!
Best Regards, James
 

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YES INDEED, THERE IS ROOM FOR ALL. THATS WHY THIS SITE HAS GROWN SO DRAMATICALLY IN A VERY SHORT TIME. ONES EXPERIENCE OR SEVERAL PUT TOGETHER WE WILL GET THE RIGHT ANSWER. (BRAIN STORMING) THATS WHAT MAKES  IT INTERESTING.  JIM.
 

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This is a great forum. We are all dedicated to learning about our hobbies and everyones opinions count. It is fortunate that someone has the desire to educate the people on cast bullet shooting. Someone'll shove a slug down a muzzleloader barrel and sneer at cast out of a cartridge gun. Don't be afraid to enter and ask questions. I prefer a shoulder cannon and keep to the now-much-maligned 357Mag for mice and squirrels, but I know what can be done with it. You find fewer opinions and more facts here then on many forums I visit. Don't just lurk, get in the fray. I contribute what I can, but cast bullets are new to me. Noone uses them that I know and I get strange stares when people see them. A feint heart never won a fair maiden as my late brother used to say.:)
 

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Indeed to the silent majority!   True we discuss cast bullets and their use here, but there is an incredibly diverse think tank of experience represented here on this forum... not limited to cast bullets.  

To those who merely come here to read, you are most welcome, but everyone has something to contribute, as we all come from different backgrounds.   We would like to hear from all who are so inclined!  The greater the depth of diversity and experience here, the richer the experience for everyone who comes!

True we may discuss our 1" shooting handguns or our latest whiz-bang-go-fast-boom-loud.  The truth is, that these things are fun, but not necessarily the norm in the shooting fraternity nor necessary to hunt a whitetail or wild hog.   We strive for better performance and precision with what we have.  It is great to see the practical side of questions addressed here, as they so often are, with plain common sense and straight answers.   I think that the transparent honesty and integrity displayed here on this forum is one of the things that makes it so special.  

Although there are folks represented here with decades of experience, there are also those who have just been introduced to the shooting sports and handloading.  It makes no difference what your experience, we would like to hear from all!

I think that Mr. Gates has made a good point, that most coming here are silent, and we wholeheartedly welcome your participation!

Thanks to all, and God Bless,

Marshall
 

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James, I was reminded of part of your post just today when talking to a good friend. I'm not considered quite normal by many folks that call me friend. It was driven home today, yet again.

The conversation was an electronic sight on a .357 Magnum and I was complaining about how it shut off due to the light recoil of the .357 and how I didn't trust the sight (battery contact problem) because it couldn't handle it. His comment was, "Heck when I talk to you I constantly have to remind myself that when you talk heavy recoil you mean REALLY PAINFUL recoil." I don't agree with him, but he was sincere and didn't say that to be negatively critical. We were both correct, but both looking at it with entirely different viewpoints, me from mine, he from his.

The only reason I write this is as an example that we all come to things with our own experiences and perspectives. No two of us are alike, and some of us are just plain different. We of the north don't do things quite the same as folks in the south, and the world continues to rotate and revolve through it all. FATHER said, after creating people capable of being so different, "It is good.". Frankly the differences don't amount to a hill of beans and some folks just don't get it because they're small.

James, don't let the horses patoot from the north that gave you such a ration of manure get you down. Also, realize that most people just read and don't participate in any forum they visit. If they visit enough times they'll realize no one will jump on them for being "new". Heck, everyone starts there and I have yet to meet the first person that knows it all. Through the years I've found that most shooters are pretty darn friendly and helpful, the newbies (not used negatively) will too after exploring this forum for awhile.
 

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Dear Mr. Gates- I have always enjoyed your threads and your insight has been very helpful to me. Please keep it up on the forum as I am sure there are a lot of guys like me that learn more from listening than speaking.   Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you All for Your Kind Words...If I offended anyone, I sincerely apologies, it was not my intent! I was very fortunate, as a young man working for Wichester-Western and thr former Smith & Wesson Ammo Co, to meet, rub elbows, shoot, and hunt with a lot of the old heads that have now gone on. I also got to see the industry and hunting traditions in Italy. People like Pino Fiocchi, Paulo Benelli, and the Bernadelli's were very kind to me.
I have seen our traditional hunting/shooting attitudes change far more than I would have ever dreamed of. When I was 14 years old I started working cows, but they closed open range in Florida and a young man starting out didn't have the land to become big like the old days. After school, military in Special Ops, I drifted into the industry as a Rep. I was later Vice-President and Director of Marketing for the former Smith & Wesson Ammo Co, also District Sales Manager for WW. I saw first hand the change from craftmanship to the "Washing Macine-product life" transition. It goes on today as the "pie" gets smaller. There's an old saying in marketing...."If there is no demand for your product, then create one!" This is happening today all around us with so called specialized products at high sales price! I try to tell new shooters.." Do you really need (and can afford)this item, or just want it?" Most of the time what they have will serve their purpose, but they have been hammered to think otherwise. I have no problem with specialised firearms, but most are best keep in the hands of the elite, experienced shooter! That's all I have ever said!
We must remember..along with knowledge, goes responsibility!
As gun knowledge passes from one generation to another, so must responsibilty! When I see people spout off about something they know about, especially hunting traditions and when I see a money hungrey dealer put a firearm in a young man's hands that he can't use..And that young man gets cut up....I run hot!
So....I will do my best to tone down my responses. Oh well......! Time to feed the bulldogs!
My Best Regards To All, James
 

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James,

Don't you dare tone down. Sometimes it just needs to be told as it is, and sometimes the relief valve needs to be opened up. I like to think that we're all close enough here to have the room to express ourselves as needed.

Its been a tough week for me. My mother had a health scare (shes fine) and I've been trying to figure out some employment problems. As the day ended some answers presented themselves. Now I can enjoy the site and look forward to the weekend. On cable TV, TBS is running a John Wayne weekend. Things are looking up.

Thanks to everyone here for making a great place to hang out and enjoy.
 

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Hi, Mr. Gates:
  You can't quit on us! You're one of the most experienced and expert regulars.  We all can benefit from your wisdom and save ourselves re-inventing the wheel. Of course we do things differently up here, but that literally goes with the territory.

  I don't need a really big gun, even for Saskatchewan whitetails ;-). Yes, the .243 can reach farther than it can kill, and a hundred rounds of practice ammo is cheaper than the latest Loudenboomer.  Since I'm a Hunter Safety instructor, I have to be familiar with all types of guns. (At least it's an excuse to buy another one.)  I have 7 action types here, and they all have their advantages and disadvantages. It took a while to realize that you can only split a hair so many times.

  This is still the politest forum going. Nobody's going to go down in flames for an innocent question or a legitimate beef, as happens on some other forums.

  Besides, you can't quit, because you're addicted to this place!

Bye
Jack
 

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To Mr. Gates

It has been a while since I had the chance to talk to you directly, my schedule is different than it was before, so I don't have the time to sit down and discuss things with everyone here on the forum. Sometimes I just have time to view the topics I enjoy most and read a few posts and that is it. Don't you dare tone yourself down for anybody.

I am just about done reading "####, I was there." which everone knows is Elmer Keith's life story. If I learned one thing it was that Elmer didn't take no c&#36%# from anybody and he always told the truth the way he knew it to be. He didn't sugar cote nothing. If somebody dosen't like the way you all hunt down there, TOUGH! That is their problem not yours. It just shows how shallow they really are.

You just stay right here on the forum where you are needed. Your input is valuable as is everyone who visits here. A man with your credentials is definately needed here. I am glad Marshall had the vision to see this forum as it turned out to be  and that it is still growing!

God Bless You and Yours

Chris
 

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Mr. Gates.
As stated in another post, I am new to the world of firearms, and I do more reading then posting, mainly because I am trying to learn from the collective minds of the experianced. My Grandfather always said "The day we stop learning is when they nail the coffin shut". I have posted other questoins about various topics on other forums and received responses that almost turned me away from shooting altogether. I do not ever plan on hunting at this time, but enjoy target shooting and plan on asking many more questions here about several older firearms I own. WHY! well because the folks here spoke the truth and were more then helpful. I found out a long time ago that it is anly what you learn after you know it all that counts, so in agreement with you, I do not take one persons word as gospel. However I do respect everyones right to their own opinion and summarize the total information to use to my best advantage.
I guess what I am trying to say is, this world needs more folks like the ones in here that are helpfull in a sincere and honest fashion, and we also need to recognise the need for the "know it alls" to someday learn that they are more of a "newbie" then the beginner who is willing to learn.
 

My opion only,  Harold Westendorp.

p.s. I will be trying those BTB for my 32 win spec as soon as I slug the barrel and can get them ordered.
 

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James,  I am newly signed on to the forum, but I have been reading it since last fall.  I am not exactly new to shooting, but have returned to it (and started using big bores) after a long time away from it.  I have enjoyed your posts on all of the forums and I have learned from, and I hope you won't stop.  

BTW, I went to school at UF in Gainesville in the 60s and I may retire near there.  What can you tell me about Old Town Hammock.  I've probably driven through, but I don't remember. (That may be the ideal place to retire).

RB
 

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RB...Old Town Hammock strecthes North of Old Town and Fannin Springs (on #19) north along #349 for about 8 miles, flanking the Suwannee River (maybe a couple miles deep). Most is broken up into 3 acre lots. The trees are very tall and thick.The soil is grey sand loam on top of limerock. The well water (mine is 80' deep) will test 99.7% with some calcium. Magnolias, gums, bay, water oak, yellow oak, laural oak, and holly make up to cover. There is a little roll to the land. High ridge above the Suwannee flood plain. We are getting lots of Floridians moving out of South Florida mess. 12 miles South to Chiefland, 35 miles East to Gainesville, 24 miles to Suwannee (on the coast), and 8 miles to Cross City, county seat of Dixie County. Taxes-peanuts. Food, except gas and cigs--25% to 35% less than cities.  Lots of new heavy duty manufactured homes. Great fishing inland river and coast. Best hunting in Florida!!!!! From Purvis Landing, by our place, for 25 miles upriver to the Santa Fa there are 23 first mag springs. Temp got down to -20's and will go up to +90's. Everyone has a bunch of guns! Vote Democrat in locals, Republican in State and National. Slow pace! Great Food!
Come on Down! Best Regards, James
 

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I'm one of the "silent majority".  I sure don't consider myself an expert in any way, shape, or form.  I've enjoyed shooting since I got my first Daisy BB gun (lever action, of course!) back in 1961.  I was sure a proud youngster!  Enjoyed my late grandfather's Ansley H. Fox double barrel 16 gauge quail gun, my daddy's Winchester Model 94 30-30, and now my own battery of rifles, handguns, and shotguns.  Been reloadin' since 1986.  Factory loads were too expensive & my military paycheck didn't go too far after seein' to my family first.  I went around all the tire shops in the area beggin' off old wheelweights to make my own "home rolls" first on borrowed equipment from "oldtimers" there in south Texas until I could afford to get my own.

The friends I've met from the shooting community have been and are the truest friends of all.  I'm a military retiree after serving our blessed nation for a little over 24 years.  I've had the privledge to shoot & hunt from Georgia and Florida to Texas and Alaska.  I learned it's done differently evrywhere ya go.  What makes it so much fun is the huntin' partners you encounter along the way.

Mr. Gates, don't you fret none.  I haven't shaken your hand yet, but I met you just just a couple of weeks ago when I found this web page.  We are of like mind on many things and I look forward to readin' your commentary on various topics.  Hang in there!  We silent ones look for your words.  Shoot, maybe once & a while we'll even jump in the fray & comment, ourselves!

Remember, when our Lord had enough, He fashioned a whip and used it!

Charles Mathis  aka "CharlieBonz"
 

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Hello! I just found this forum about a week ago and have found it VERY informitive.I have pretty much gone to cast bullets for everything I own and I really appreciate all the great info and will try to be helpful when I think I have something useful to add.Mr Gates....I live in illinois now(not by choice) but my hometown is Lakeland Fla....most of my family is in the Cross City/Old town area, so I know firsthand about the  northern views of Southern Tradition.....:)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Welcaome aboard SSGT....Glad to hear from another Floridian!
My mother's people came to Levy County in 1867 and into Columbia County in 1830. I lived in Alton, Illinois while working as District Manager fo Winchester-Western (the ammo plant is there). If you get down this way, give me a buzz...We will have Fried Mullet, Cheese Grits, Swamp Cabbage, and Okra & Tomatos....Maybe some Mustard Fried Venison and Gator Tail!!! Talk Geechee and Gulla! Catch a big Bo'Hog!
Best Regards, James

(Edited by James Gates at 1:04 pm on April 15, 2001)
 
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