[Allen Wilson]

My wife was a sweety last Father's Day and gave me a used Marlin 336RC in 35 Rem that I had been looking at for some time.  The gun was made in 1965 and is in good to excellent condition.

Last week was the first time that I was able to get this particular gun out.  I had both factory and handloaded rounds with me to test out the gun.  First shot out of a clean barrel left a perfectly round hole in the target at 25 yd's.  Shots two and three both went through nearly fully sideways.  Hmm.  So I cleaned out the barrel quickly and loaded in a handload using a Rem 200gr RN.  First shot was again perfect.  The next four went through in varying degrees of yaw.  

The rifling from breach to muzzle is sharp and clean.  The crown was clean.  My gunsmith and I could find nothing to blame.  In an effort we re-crowned the muzzle, but still had the same pre-crowning results.  The slugged bore measures .3574.

This unfortunate problem may go a ways to explain the overall condition of the rifle.  Any comments or thoughts that anyone might want to throw out are welcome.  Thanks!

 

[El Lobo]

Allen,

I think I'd do a chamber cast and see if the chamber is properly aligned with the bore of the barrel.

Second thought.....is the nose of the bullet getting damaged as it cycles from the magazine into the chamber?  A deformed bullet will get you keyholes.

If you decide not to keep the rifle, I'm interested in buying it from you.......a .375 Beartooth.....a rebore and rechamber could be done!!  ;-)

El Lobo in NM

 

[RugerNo3]

Allen, don't be too quick  to judge the 35. It is not uncommon for a bullet to have tail wobble on close targets. Fire it at 100 yds and see what it looks like. You may have a slight problem with the barrel crown. A bullet may not go to sleep and spin like a gyro till 50 yds or more. Every barrel is a law unto itself.

 

[MikeG]

Are you really, really, REALLY sure that the bore is clean?

Micro-groove barrels are infamous for leading and filling up the grooves.

By the way lead fouling can polish up nice and look just like steel.  So you can't always tell by looking.  Don't suppose you know someone with a bore scope?

You might also check the twist rate - a long shot.  Should be, what, 1 in 16"?  Or similar.

I'd personally hook up my Foul-Out, and see what else came out of the barrel (using both copper and lead solvents).

If you don't have access to one of those, then I'd wear out a couple of brass brushes scrubbing on the bore, and give it another try.  Or some JB bore paste or Rem bore cleaner, on a patch wrapped around a nylon brush, and about a hundred strokes.

That sure is a weird result you are seeing.  Gotta be some explanation.

 

[Allen Wilson]

Hello Guys,

Thanks for all the replys.  So far none of you have hit on anything that hasn't been covered prior to this posting.

I take that back.  We haven't cast the chamber.  But the rest have been covered.  Only thing we could find were three tiny pits about mid-bore with a bore-scope.  Not big enough, or enough of them to care, with jacketed bullets.  And the bullets tips are fine.  I have and have had other Marlin 35 Rem's and none have ever put bullets through a 25yd target sideways before.

Any thoughts on why the first shot from the barrel when clean and cold stabilizes, and those thereafter do not?

Thanks again guys.

Allen Wilson

 

[IDShooter]

Allen,
      Here's a thought, and it's a long shot but it sounds like you've covered all the ordinary causes, so it's worth a try. Perhaps your barrel was improperly heat treated or has some other malady that heat would affect? Have you tried shooting the first shot, then waiting however long it takes for the barrel to completely cool again before firing the next shot? It seems to me that a good first shot followed by tumblers could only be affected by heat or barrel cleanliness. We know cleaning helps- now try to rule out the other variable.
       If you find that the second shot from an UNCLEANED but COMPLETELY COOLED barrel flies true I would send that puppy back to Marlin for a rebarrel!
        Like I said, it's a long shot but worth a try! Then again I might just contact them and see about a rebarrel anyway and save the components.
                              Good luck!       ID

 

[Allen Wilson]

IDShooter,

Thanks for the reply.  No, I didn't try your suggestion.  If your thought were the case I'd still be in the process which I am right now.  

I am awaiting the arrival of a Marlin factory barrell from Gun Parts Corporation.  It will be a 35 Rem again, although if they had had a 356 Winchester barrell in it would've gotten the upgrade!  

My gunsmith has offered to help me with the rebarrell, no charge, and at less than &#3660 for the new barrell that beats out Marlins pretty non-committal quote of &#36130ish for the job, less shipping and insurance!  I'll be adding on a set of Ashley sights front and rear and in a couple weeks I ought to be making nice round holes again!

Thanks to all for your thoughts.

Allen Wilson

 

[John Kort]

Allen,

You mentioned that the bore measured .3574". I am assuming that you meant the groove diameter(?).

If indeed your rifle has a .3574" bore diameter,  that is the problem since a .358" diameter bullet would only get a grip on .0006" of rifling and with all the gas going by the undersized bullet, well, various bullet profiles will definitely appear on the target.  Been there, done that!

Let's assume that the groove diameter is .3574 .  I would check on three things:

1.) muzzle crown -
As Ruger No. 3 indicated, a bad crown can sure do funny things to a bullet.  Your gunsmith indicated that it was ok, so-

2.) Choose a bullet that has more lengthwise  contact    with the rifling.  

3.) Worn Rifling at the muzzle -
When you pushed the lead slug through the barrel was there little to no resistance at the muzzle?  Several years ago a friend bought  an old Marlin in .32 W. S.  which he found  printed beautiful lengthwise bullet profiles!

I checked the bore and found that for some strange reason,  the first inch or so in from the muzzle, the barrel was about .001-.002 bigger, possibly enlarged by years of incorrect use of a cleaning rod.  

I cut 2" off the barrel and, success!  The rifle shot fine after that.

Good luck,
John

 

[Allen Wilson]

Mr. Kort,

Thank you for your thoughts.

Yes, the groove diameter measured .3574.  Two different bullets were used in targeting the rifle.  Factory 200gr Winchesters, and handloaded 200gr Rem core-lokts.  Both left some really nice profiles through the target.

When we re-crowned the barrell the muzzle was first "faced", removing .125" of barrell.  This was done with the thought that we might just avoid any worn area at the muzzle.  We could've gone that much more again before hitting the front sight base, but all visual indication gave no reason to do so.

Thanks again,

Allen Wilson