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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A little experiment to see if this video will post. Click the pictures and they should play, I hope.
These are both new unaltered rifles. This is not a superiority contest. Watch a M70 double feed...can't be done you say.....watch. This is a CRF, big claw extractor pre 64 action. You can see the second round pop up and start back in with the empty case.
The M700 can't double feed as you'll see the empty ejected before the bolt can get far enough back to strip the next round out of the magazine.
Pick the machine you like best boys but how many of you buy the old M70s won't double feed story? I appologize for the quality....phone videos aren't real great.



 

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I cant tell anything from your photos but can tell you one thing. That is not a pre 64 model 70. It is a newer claw exractor model 70. Entirely different from the pre 64 models. I wish I could see what you are refering to. I am an avid controlled round feed man as I feel they are entirely more reliable mechanisms. However to say that a push feed cant double feed is entirely wrong as I have seen it happen many times as a range officer. If the model 70 did double feed then that conferms what I have always believed. There are some out there that could screw up a two camel caravan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yessir, said it was new rifle...but a pre 64 action as commonly refered to. You know, CRF, big claw, 3 position safety yada yada etc. All I can say is watch the video again and yes I agree, it's not high quality. The M70 can and will double feed easier than a M700. You can see the empty case is still held by the extractor while the second round pops up and starts back forward. I would like for someone to show me an M700 picking up a second round with the empty case still in the action and double feeding. Once again, these are both new, clean well maintained rifles with no workover or modifications.
 

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You can make any controlled round feed rifle double feed if you do not retract the bolt far enough to strike the ejector hard enough to eject the spent round, as was demonstrated in your video.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You can make any controlled round feed rifle double feed if you do not retract the bolt far enough to eject the spent round as was demonstrated in your video.
Correct, I did not bump the ejector. You can indeed short stroke the M70 and get a double but I can't short stroke a M700 and do anything other than run the empty back in. I have no prejudice against either action and not trying to prove one over the other. I see them both as effective in the hands of a competent operator. We can all argue this stuff for years but seeing is believing....maybe?
 

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I have never had this issue with a Model 70 or Ruger M77. Had this happen once on my Savage 110 270.

For one, when I am ejecting a shell, I guess I yank the bolt back until it hits the stop then push forward. I just don't short stroke the bolt. I can't say that it won't ever happen, but to this point, it has only ever been my Savage 110 , and I was like 13 at the time.
 

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Just another post by Lumberjak to convince the public that the Remington 700 is the second coming of Christ. You can make a Winchester double feed by manipulating the action (might take some practice) just the same as just about any other type of action out there. Look up his post, just about every one is either defending Remington or attacking anybody who raises an issue with Remington. Find the rifle that feels best to you and dont look back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just another post by Lumberjak to convince the public that the Remington 700 is the second coming of Christ. You can make a Winchester double feed by manipulating the action (might take some practice) just the same as just about any other type of action out there. Look up his post, just about every one is either defending Remington or attacking anybody who raises an issue with Remington. Find the rifle that feels best to you and dont look back.
Saw right through my plan huh? Hey, the truth hurts those who wish to hide from it but I'm not selling anything today. Maybe you can post a video and prove me wrong...how about it? A closed mouth gathers no foot but a picture seems a little harder to argue with.
 

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I was only able to play the model 70 twice and the model 700 once. I would like to view it a couple more times to be sure. First off I was paid in my proffesion to be an observer, so I may have some insight that others dont. If you understand the two rifles construction you will easily pick up on the scheme. The model 70 has a fixed blade extractor attached at the rear of the actions travel. The bolt was purposely stopped prior to the ejector being engaged. While the operator did this to prove the 70 can be double fed. I have no problem with this as it does prove a point. Also look at the caliber, it appears to be @270 Win caliber. This allows the NEW model 70's to have the magazine raise a new cartridge into the feed rails prior to the ejector being engaged. Now look at the 700 video. You will see the ejector throwing the fired case out of the action just as it clears the chamber while the cartridge in the magazine, which APPEARS to be a loner cartridge. The cartridge in the magazine is still under the bolt head. This proves very little. I just borrowed a 700 and double fed a cartridge. In fact I came close to tripple feeding it. I simply pushed a new round part way into the chamber, then drew the bolt back and pushed another round out of the magazine, pushed the bolt only part way and again withdrew the bolt and dang near got a third round into the chamber area. All this proves is that any machanical object can be manipulated to fail.
 

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Gotta admit I'm not sure what the videos prove. Its like posting a video showing a crf model 70 feeding upside down and then trying to do it with a 700. Its pointless as I don't know anyone who works a bolt-action upside down the same way I don't know anyone who tries to short-stroke the bolt on purpose. I prefer the 700 action over the 70 but I can't blame anyone for liking the crf 70, they are fine rifles. Dave
 

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How can I prove you wrong Lumbejak, you posted a video proving you can't properly cycle the action of a bolt action rifle, was this take 1 or 25? Your obsession with Remington is pathetic, have you ever heard of a woman? Unlike you I don't have an agenda. The Remington 700 is a great design but there are others that bring alot to the table too.
 

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Let's also not forget that the Remington 700's two-position safety has been proven to be a liability, with a factory recall of such. For those who would like to argue the point with me, all I can tell you is my ears still ring from the time I had one go off just a couple feet from me, while in the back of a van. Whether it was the safety failing or the position and operation of its design, all I can say for sure is I'm glad my dad always practices good muzzle control!

In my somewhat opinionated view, a 3-position safety that allows you to open the action while the gun is still secured will always be preferable in a hunting rifle. In my mind, it is the distinguishing characteristic between the two rifles.
 

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Thank you "M-1894"!!!

Lumberjack, this is the main reason all of my hunting rifles are indeed model 70 Winchester rifles in the pre-64 action. PS.....I do not short stroke my rifle period! The model 70 select grade Wnchester is clearly the more superior hunting rifle verses the Remington 700.

Now somebody can get the LOCK!!!:D:D:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Now now, leave my blowup doll out of this. Little Remmy Sue might be offended. You CRF guys just don’t want to believe anything other than that old dangerous game rifleman’s rifle stuff huh? I’m having fun being pathetic, just watch the videos. If you are intelligent and learn something, cool, and if not, you can insult me.
30-30remchester, action length or caliber makes no difference. The M70 is a .243 but the ejector has to be behind the magazine regardless of length or it would block the feed. Ejectors can be custom fitted and lengthened but they always have to clear the magazine, that’s just simple mechanics. The M700 is a .25-06 but again, caliber and action length do not matter. The M700 ejector is in the bolt nose and spring loaded, it only needs the case mouth to clear the port. Neither action is superior, said that from the start but neither is inferior. This is not to prove one over the other but exactly the opposite. Does anybody get it? It should be obvious, both of these rifles are mine and I like them both but I harbor no false sense of security by thinking I am safe hunting anything as long as I have a CRF, da big claw and a never fail 3 position safety. I choose to put my trust elsewhere.
It'll get locked Tracer, good fun never lasts long. Depends on how rowdy you guys get. This stuff rolls off pretty easy for me so we'll see.
 

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Alright guys. If you want to continue the M70 vs. M700 argument that I closed, do it somewhere else.

This one is locked too. Don't start a third.
 
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