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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a m77 and m70.The m70 is a 90's model ranger and is so smooth you could operate the bolt with chopsticks :D.But i want to talk about the vanguard and the m700.I held a m700 nib and was kinda stiff .Not as much as a 710 or my bolt 17 hmr .But still not what i would call i smooth action.Now i went up to walmart today and held a vanguard in 300 wby .and it is by far a smoother action than a m700 could be (unless you sandblasted the internal or something...)
Im not much of a Remington person anyway also hear their quality recently isnt up to date .
Now think about getting a vanguard action for a custom rifle .Just the smoothest action next to a m70 well in a 500$ or less gun .I dont know about the new m70's or the pre-64's which both have a claw extractor or the wby's mark v etc .
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
more focused on a barrel than the particular action and why not? I think the vanguard is a great action **** E weatherby even hunts with it .I mean i dont see how it's any worse for a custom rifle than a m700 would be
 

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Agree with nimrod, I wouldn't use a Vanguard for a custom rifle either, Remington is a much better option. Your choice of course but when you get ready to true that action, come back and tell us how you did it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I dont know if it comes in a 375 h&h length action or a a reugular magnum action.Because a 375 is longer in all and most win mags etc have a shortened case compared to the h&h mags.I want to rebarrel on to 358 norma mag or if i could find it was possible a 8mm rem mag which of course uses the whole length h&h case.
 

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The Rem 700 is the smallblock Chevy of the bolt gun world, just about every gunsmith is comfortable and competent working on one. From the factory a Howa is built to better tolerences, personally I feel the action design is better. Either one is a good choice for a build, the Remington will cost more but have a better resale value down the road. Not because there is anything wrong with a Howa, just not as well known.
 

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There is nothing wrong with the Howa action as a base for a rifle. BSN is right though, more smiths will be familiar working with a Rem action. I am getting ready to start a project using a Mauser action. It just depends on what you like the best. A "good" gunsmith will be fine with any of the above. The barrel is the key as mentioned before.
 

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Seeing as we have definitive proof of superiority in the link provided by HogStomper, arguing would be futile. A post from a reputable expert on another forum is above reproach but I do have some questions even at the risk of mucking up the issue with pesky facts.

Tighter tolerances? Where, what and how many? Someone with tools and the knowledge to properly use them, give us some numbers please. What tolerances define functional reliability over accuracy? Your actual experiences would be just peachy.

Not wanting to fish this hole dry just yet, one final question. A Vanguard has a 1.5 inch 3 shot guaranty. A SUB-MOA has an accuracy guaranty of 1.03 inches for 3 shots. Seeing as the only difference in the barreled actions is selecting the ones that shoot better, how do we account for this near ½ inch of accuracy potential? Not much in a hand-grenade fight but we’re talking precision and tolerances…right?
 

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Most people that I know that have had custom made rifles used either Remington or Savage actions.
I think the main reason is that is what most of the smiths are accustom to and therefore feel most comfortable working on.
For the last few months I have been seriously thinking of having a custom made rifle built for me. The calibers that I have narrowed it down to is the 6.5X284 or the 280AI.
I have just received a reply from Bell & Carlson and their answer has now given me another angle?
As I have said many times before, so many calibers and so little time!
 

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The Vanguard, or Howa actions (virtually identical) would be fine actions for a custom rifle build. A friend of mine who bulids custom rifles as a serious hobby and shoots very long range with some of them (caliber appropriate) uses both those types of actions and claims they are the best value/$$ to be found today. My next purchase will be either a Howa or Vangurd.
 

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I’m sure you boys have lots of friends who build all kinds of rifles with Vanguard/Howa actions. There are a couple of problems with Howa actions but I reckon your friends told you all about them so no need for me to go into it. Now so you don’t think I’m trying to be an expert, let me say that I am not a gunsmith. I do work for a gunsmith but I am merely contract labor. He has severe Arthritis in his hands and likes to call himself semi retired but he is licensed and keeps the books so it works out fine for both of us. Realizing that’s about as impressive as an on-line degree in basket weaving, I might add that I have some background as a machinist, have friends myself who actually are gunsmiths and I do savvy the lingo. I can’t tell you a gunsmith that builds on Vanguard actions but I can tell you there are many who won’t. As usual, buy what you like, build what you like but do a little research before you spend any money. I know I’m always buckin the wind but if one guy reads something I say and asks a few questions, saves a little money or learns anything, it’s worth arguing. I might not always be right but sandpaper is rough on one side for a reason. There are many precision gunsmiths who make note of what they won't work on either on web-sites or over the phone and this type of stuff is very common. Makes you wonder?

PLEASE NOTE: Bolt Action Rifles Only.
We do not work on Weatherby Vangaurds, Savages, or Mausers.
http://www.precisionbarrelwork.com/actions_tooling_precision.html

 
I specialize in building exceptional rifles on Remington
700 actions and benchrest quality custom actions. I will
work on nothing else but those as of September 2006.

http://www.bryantcustom.com/pricelis.htm

 

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I’m sure you boys have lots of friends who build all kinds of rifles with Vanguard/Howa actions. There are a couple of problems with Howa actions but I reckon your friends told you all about them so no need for me to go into it. Now so you don’t think I’m trying to be an expert, let me say that I am not a gunsmith. I do work for a gunsmith but I am merely contract labor. He has severe Arthritis in his hands and likes to call himself semi retired but he is licensed and keeps the books so it works out fine for both of us. Realizing that’s about as impressive as an on-line degree in basket weaving, I might add that I have some background as a machinist, have friends myself who actually are gunsmiths and I do savvy the lingo. I can’t tell you a gunsmith that builds on Vanguard actions but I can tell you there are many who won’t. As usual, buy what you like, build what you like but do a little research before you spend any money. I know I’m always buckin the wind but if one guy reads something I say and asks a few questions, saves a little money or learns anything, it’s worth arguing. I might not always be right but sandpaper is rough on one side for a reason. There are many precision gunsmiths who make note of what they won't work on either on web-sites or over the phone and this type of stuff is very common. Makes you wonder?

PLEASE NOTE: Bolt Action Rifles Only.
We do not work on Weatherby Vangaurds, Savages, or Mausers.
http://www.precisionbarrelwork.com/actions_tooling_precision.html

 
I specialize in building exceptional rifles on Remington
700 actions and benchrest quality custom actions. I will
work on nothing else but those as of September 2006.

http://www.bryantcustom.com/pricelis.htm

Darn, seems like every time I log onto an internet forum I find out that most of my favorite firearms are junk in one way or another, unless it's a Remington or Winchester of course.

My apologies for questioning the sanctity of the 700 action.
 

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Darn, seems like every time I log onto an internet forum I find out that most of my favorite firearms are junk in one way or another, unless it's a Remington or Winchester of course.

My apologies for questioning the sanctity of the 700 action.
Life sucks huh? But look at all the knowledge contained herewith, no need to ever leave the house:)
And no, not junk, not at all. I've owned a couple of Vanguards, had no beef with them. Good rifles as they come from the factory but maybe not the best and most economical platform for a custom.
 

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more focused on a barrel than the particular action and why not? I think the vanguard is a great action **** E weatherby even hunts with it .I mean i dont see how it's any worse for a custom rifle than a m700 would be
I had a vanguard and it was terrible so I wouldn't use one as the basis for a custom rifle. Everyone has a different opinion, that's mine.
 

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Besides, if it's not a Ruger, it's just in the "other" category.
Heck those Rugers don't need any custom work do they Tang, they're perfect "as is," right????? :D
 

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Life sucks huh? But look at all the knowledge contained herewith, no need to ever leave the house:)
And no, not junk, not at all. I've owned a couple of Vanguards, had no beef with them. Good rifles as they come from the factory but maybe not the best and most economical platform for a custom.
That is very true, there are a lot of 700 gunsmiths out there, while something like the Vanguard action would cater to a more "specialized" type of gunsmith, and that usually means more expensive.

So, I do agree that for a full blown custom job a 700 would be a better option, because it's been around for so long, and there are so many good gunsmiths that know how to make it sing.

As an owner of both rifles I would have to say that I would gladly hunt or shoot with either one, any day of the week.
 

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I said it before, both are fine pieces of steel. Any smith who would say, "I can't do a good job on that 1500 action", isn't much of a gunsmith in my opinion. It is not rocket science to set up the barrel, fit it correctly onto either action, and fit the whole works properly to a stock (trigger job and glass/pillar bedding included). For someone to say "I can do all that on a 700 and not on a 1500 action" is ridiculous. It is the same process on either. The 1500 would be my 2nd or 3rd choice for a custom job. Still, the one I owned previously was overall the most accurate rifle I ever had. I think it was the barrel. I think if you could have affixed that barrel properly to a 700 or Mauser action (and possibly even a Ruger with their junky trigger), it would have shot just as well. But no better.
 
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