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Discussion Starter #1
This weekend I took my rifle (Marlin 1894 .44 mag) out to the range to do some offhand shooting practice. It has been sighted-in using AO Ghost Ring sights to shoot at point-of-aim at 50 yards and I get pretty consistent  1.25" groups FROM THE BENCH.

When I stand to shoot off hand at the same distance I get nice, tight groups but 4" HIGH and 1" TO THE RIGHT.

Can anyone help me understand the mechanics of what's going on and suggest a practical solution. The problem is some shots will be taken from standing, prone, some kneeling and sitting in addition to bench rest sandbag shooring.

(The load is the 300g WFNGC 44 mag, sized .432, over 21.7g of H110 at 1640 fps.)

Thanks!
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Jack, when you shoot off sandbags, always put the forend in your hand, and then the back of your hand on the sandbag (if you're not doing this already).

And try to hold the gun to your shoulder with the same tension in each shooting position, and likewise with the other hand on the forend.

Can't offer much else.  That sounds like a LOT of change for that short distance.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Mike:

I think you've identified the problem. When I shoot off the bench I rest the the forearm directly on the sandbag.  I sit almost sideways to the rifle and cradle the butt under my off hand. This allows me to raise or lower the butt by bringing my elbows closer together or further apart on the bench like scissors. Someone told me it was called "Camp Perry style."

I had no idea that the difference would be that great. Must be because it's a relatively heavy recoiling load.

I guess the lesson is to sight in and practice the way you're going to shoot.
 

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well, stranger, your problem is everybody's else! change shooting positions, and point of impact will change, even with handguns. when shooting PPC with a 1911, I have to do some 'kentucky windage' when shooting prone, and that's only 50 yds. same with my SBH in IHMSA, when I switch from 'revolver' to 'standing', same gun, same ammo.
Now, with rifles: to sum it up, I read some years ago an article of Craig Boddington. He shot his pet rifle, a 7mm mag, at 200 yd. from sitting, prone and another shooting position, kneeling with the gun rested on a log, if I remember well. he found that POI varied a lot, more than one foot, up and sideways.
  When shooting prone, to keep the left forearm as close to vertical as possible helps to reduce side changes, but there is always some.
  I sight my guns from the bench, and make corrections for the shooting positions I will actually use, and if  I have to change 'em, old kentucky trick is turned on.
  This varies from shooter to shooter. a buddy sweared that this did not happen with him, until he tried it. he was surprised, and an optimist he is, said: " knew I shoot better than my targets were showing!"
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Mun!

It surprised the heck out of me to see just how great a variation there really is. What I did was to sight it in from the bench and then make the click adjustments on the rear to approximate expected zero from the standing position. This weekend I'll see if the system works. Then I'll see what happens from sitting and prone.

It sure gets complicated doesn't it?
 

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Jack,

I just made a post over on the Handguns section of the forum:

<a href="http://beartoothbullets.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=4&topic=113" target='_blank'>http://beartoothbullets.com/cgi-bin....pic=113</a>

There's an idea posted for a rest that will minimize the fluctuations in POI you are experiencing between bench zeroed shooting and offhand!

Hope it helps!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Marshall, I'll try it.  I also have to remember to square my shoulder into the rifle from the bench as I would standing rather than sitting sideways since the rifle recoils differently.
 

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Beartooth Regular
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Just a quick comment- I have found when shooting my lever guns over traditional rests that putting the front rest all the way at the back of the forearm (at the front of the receiver) not only reduces group size but also minimizes shift in point of impact. Hold the forearm just as you would in off-hand shooting. Try 'em all and see what works!!          ID
 
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