Velocity loss with shorter carbine barrels
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The difference is minimal. For an example, in 444 Marlin the Speer no. 13 manual shows their 270-grain Gold Dot SP propelled by 52.0 grains of H322 clocking 2211 fps through a 24" Marlin. My own 18.5" Marlin 444P using the exact same load except for primers chronographed 2020 fps. Speer used CCI primers of course, I use Winchester WLR's. That works out to about a 9% reduction in total velocity for a 5.5" reduction in barrel length.
Hello from Scotland
Sorry Dutch i do not have any figures for you, but does it matter ? What are you shooting and at what distance ? Im awaiting my .444p 18" barrel to arrive any day now, just waiting for the gun shop to call and say its here ?
I want the .444p as a woodland rifle for deer and something different on the range ! At 50 yards which will probably be maxium in the woods i do not think the speed will matter with such a big chunk of lead.
Do you have a .444 or are you thinking about one ?
Regards Englander
Sorry Dutch i do not have any figures for you, but does it matter ? What are you shooting and at what distance ? Im awaiting my .444p 18" barrel to arrive any day now, just waiting for the gun shop to call and say its here ?
I want the .444p as a woodland rifle for deer and something different on the range ! At 50 yards which will probably be maxium in the woods i do not think the speed will matter with such a big chunk of lead.
Do you have a .444 or are you thinking about one ?
Regards Englander
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3,366 Posts
To better answer your question, compare the velocity differences with identical loads when fired in the two different barrel lengths in the article linked here:
.444 Marlin America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part III
This should help you out with real numbers!
God Bless,
Marshall
.444 Marlin America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part III
This should help you out with real numbers!
God Bless,
Marshall
Your welcome Dutch.
Marshall, I think you may have me confused with someone else, But I'm in the middle of testing the 290LFNGC. So far I like what I'm seeing. It takes some effort to stop and recover those rascals. In the vel loss test, I used a 444ss and a444p. I sold the 444ss to a friend who can out beg a hungry dog. The 444p has a very tight chamber so my loss might be a little less than avg. In fact its the only gun i've ever had that comes close to factory pressure barrels #. Excuse my ramblings because I've got the flu and a temp of 102 at the moment.
Ill type at you later.
Puny walt
Marshall, I think you may have me confused with someone else, But I'm in the middle of testing the 290LFNGC. So far I like what I'm seeing. It takes some effort to stop and recover those rascals. In the vel loss test, I used a 444ss and a444p. I sold the 444ss to a friend who can out beg a hungry dog. The 444p has a very tight chamber so my loss might be a little less than avg. In fact its the only gun i've ever had that comes close to factory pressure barrels #. Excuse my ramblings because I've got the flu and a temp of 102 at the moment.
Ill type at you later.
Puny walt
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6,651 Posts
Dutch
While Englander is correct that it doesnt really matter, it is of intrest.
The May issue of Handloader has an interesting article on the .30-30 that adresses the barrel length/velocity question.
Interesting also is the consistancy between different guns. The Happy Kaboomer posted some results with his Winchester Timber Carbine on another thread.
He got 1904 fps from 40.0 gr of H4198 with the 310 Lee. I got 1947fps with 40.0 IMR4198 and the Lee 310.
He got 1997fps with a 250gr cast bullet and 56.0gr of H335. I got 2023 with the same weight cast bullet and the same charge.
He got 1982fps with 53.0gr of IMR3031 and a 240 Rem bullet. I got 1901 fps with the same bullet and powder charge.
It appears that load results are at least predictable (within reason) between different rifles.
While Englander is correct that it doesnt really matter, it is of intrest.
The May issue of Handloader has an interesting article on the .30-30 that adresses the barrel length/velocity question.
Interesting also is the consistancy between different guns. The Happy Kaboomer posted some results with his Winchester Timber Carbine on another thread.
He got 1904 fps from 40.0 gr of H4198 with the 310 Lee. I got 1947fps with 40.0 IMR4198 and the Lee 310.
He got 1997fps with a 250gr cast bullet and 56.0gr of H335. I got 2023 with the same weight cast bullet and the same charge.
He got 1982fps with 53.0gr of IMR3031 and a 240 Rem bullet. I got 1901 fps with the same bullet and powder charge.
It appears that load results are at least predictable (within reason) between different rifles.
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Dutch
Had a brain storm and got lucky, found this pretty quickly.
Fellow named Willam Schumaker wrote an article for Guns magazine in Sept. 1965. He took a 24" Marlin .444 and cut the barrel back an inch at a time.
Lth vel-fps e.s.-fps
24" 2396 35
23" 2397 18
22" 2369 5
21" 2341 45
20" 2339 22
This was with factory ammunition. The extreme spreads are pretty low, 23" & 22" e.s. are similar to what I have seen from IMR 4198 with full power loads. The velocity loss of 57 fps four four inches of barrel is pretty insignificant. I have had higher extreme spreads with accurate handloads. For barrels under 20" the vel. loss accelerates a little.
Had a brain storm and got lucky, found this pretty quickly.
Fellow named Willam Schumaker wrote an article for Guns magazine in Sept. 1965. He took a 24" Marlin .444 and cut the barrel back an inch at a time.
Lth vel-fps e.s.-fps
24" 2396 35
23" 2397 18
22" 2369 5
21" 2341 45
20" 2339 22
This was with factory ammunition. The extreme spreads are pretty low, 23" & 22" e.s. are similar to what I have seen from IMR 4198 with full power loads. The velocity loss of 57 fps four four inches of barrel is pretty insignificant. I have had higher extreme spreads with accurate handloads. For barrels under 20" the vel. loss accelerates a little.
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As ENGLANDER said there really isn't any significant difference between the long 24" and short 18.5" guns in any realworld sense. Here's a pic of me and my whitetail on opening day last November. I doubt she noticed the velocity loss!
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Bill,
What load did you pop that critter with?
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Marshall
What load did you pop that critter with?
<!--emo&
--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo--> Marshall
<!--QuoteBegin--Marshall Stanton+Mar. 08 2002,07:56--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Marshall Stanton @ Mar. 08 2002,07:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bill,
What load did you pop that critter with?
Marshall[/quote]
I couldn't read Marshall's post through Bill's picture. Figured I wasn't the only one.
What load did you pop that critter with?
Marshall[/quote]
I couldn't read Marshall's post through Bill's picture. Figured I wasn't the only one.
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That was a 270-grain Speer Gold Dot ahead of H322 and a WLR primer. Chronographed at 2099 fps.
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I'll tell you the real difference between a 24" barreled .444 and and 18.5" barreled .444. An 18.5" .444 loaded to the rafters with H335 and a Lee430310 sitting on top will knock the ears off a horse when it goes off. If I only waited another year for the 22" bbl version with the 20" twist I would have the perfect .444... IMO naturally.
After owning this 444P for about 2.5 years now, I can see its utility as a bear gun; however, for anything less than the great bears at about 200 yards or less, I'd much rather carry and shoot a 20" to 24" barreled .44mag lever gun. If you can't kill it cleanly with a Lee430310 at 1700fps from the muzzle, how much easier would it be to kill if Lee430310 was leaving the muzzle at 2100fps?
44
After owning this 444P for about 2.5 years now, I can see its utility as a bear gun; however, for anything less than the great bears at about 200 yards or less, I'd much rather carry and shoot a 20" to 24" barreled .44mag lever gun. If you can't kill it cleanly with a Lee430310 at 1700fps from the muzzle, how much easier would it be to kill if Lee430310 was leaving the muzzle at 2100fps?
44
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