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Discussion Starter #1
I have a H&R single shot that can switch barrels,I have 5 so far 45-70,22 hornet,50 cal muzzleloader, 12 gauge and .410
I'm looking for a Elk,Moose and long range target (200-300 yard steel plate) caliber.
My options are limited:25-06,270,280,7mm-08,30-06 and 308

Thanks
 

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Since you are wanting to hunt elk and moose and out of the choices presented ......... 30-06
 

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280, 30-06 and maybe even think about the 35 Whelan as well, they have a 22 inch barrel for it too.
+1! That there's what you'll want, without a doubt! :D
 

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I, too, think the 35 Whelen is the best elk/moose choice, but the OP also was interested in long range target shooting. The 280 would be my choice there, because of the good selection of high BC bullets in 7mm/.284 caliber.

The 30-06 would be the best compromise for both stated tasks, with heavier bullets than the 7mm, but still good selection of high BC choices. The Swift Scirocco II 180 grain has a BC of .520 and would be excellent for large game at extended ranges.
 

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I, too, think the 35 Whelen is the best elk/moose choice, but the OP also was interested in long range target shooting. The 280 would be my choice there, because of the good selection of high BC bullets in 7mm/.284 caliber.

The 30-06 would be the best compromise for both stated tasks, with heavier bullets than the 7mm, but still good selection of high BC choices. The Swift Scirocco II 180 grain has a BC of .520 and would be excellent for large game at extended ranges.
Agree, but the OP said that "long range" for him was 200-300. A Whelen would do that with juice to spare, and it would be a far superior elk round out to 300, IMO. Get beyond 300, and the '06 and 280 would be better for TARGET--the 280 probably taking my nod in a 160g or 154g. None would be especially great for Elk or Moose out past 300. Certainly not impossible, just not ideal.
 

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I, too, think the 35 Whelen is the best elk/moose choice, but the OP also was interested in long range target shooting. The 280 would be my choice there, because of the good selection of high BC bullets in 7mm/.284 caliber.

The 30-06 would be the best compromise for both stated tasks, with heavier bullets than the 7mm, but still good selection of high BC choices. The Swift Scirocco II 180 grain has a BC of .520 and would be excellent for large game at extended ranges.

It's been a fallacy for a long, long time that the Whelen is a short-range range number, period. There is pretty much nothing a .280 0r 30/06 can do that a Whelen cannot do better. Looking at Nosler Custom Ammo's charts:

the .280 Rem with 160gr NP bullet zeroed at 100 yards looks like this downrange: 200 yards -3.71", 300 yards -13.46", 400 yards -30.24"

the .35 Whelen looks like this with a 225gr NP zeroed at 100 yards: 200 yards -3.7", 300 yards -13.51", 400 yards -30.55"

The 30/06 shooting 165gr NP looks like this zeroed at 100 yards: 200 yards -3.74", 300 yards -13.69", 400 yards 31.07"

Quite obviously there is little difference between them whatsoever, trajectory-wise. Now, if you'd like to check the energy at 300 yards, it looks like this: .280/1761 FPE, .35 Whelen/2407 FPE, 30-06/1721 FPE. Absolutely no comparison there. Of course the numbers at 400 yards also clearly bear it out, with the Whelen still carrying over one ton of energy, but the .280 & 30/06 with any loading are marginal at best if one talks 400 yards, elk & moose in the same breath. If you want an even flatter shooting load from the Whelen, look to a 180gr TTSX OR 200gr TSX and they are even flatter shooting and still carry more energy downrange.

If you'd like to look at the Nosler tables, here they are below. And you also might find it interesting to see the Whelen also outperforms the 338/06 in any similar bullet weight and also carries a higher MV than the .338WM with both shooting a 225gr bullet and the .338WM barely squeaks past the .35W (by only 50 FPS) shooting 250gr loads. The Whelen is a very efficient round, the most efficient ever made on the '06 case.

NoslerCustom Ammunition - Nosler - Bullets, Ammunition, Rifles, Brass, Reloading Data, Hunting, Shooting, Reloading, Load Data
 

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Can you get the 35 Whelan in the rifle in question?I don't recall that as an option in the OP's original question.If you also look at Nosler's relaoding data you will see thet the 338 WM gets up to 2680 FPS with the 250 gr Partition and the 35 Whelan gets up to 2500 fps.Quite a bit more difference looking from that point of view.I just checked and there is a 35 Whelan barrel available.May be a good choice.I may have to look into getting one of these rifles.and a few barrels.
 

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It's been a fallacy for a long, long time that the Whelen is a short-range range number, period. There is pretty much nothing a .280 0r 30/06 can do that a Whelen cannot do better. Looking at Nosler Custom Ammo's charts:

the .280 Rem with 160gr NP bullet zeroed at 100 yards looks like this downrange: 200 yards -3.71", 300 yards -13.46", 400 yards -30.24"

the .35 Whelen looks like this with a 225gr NP zeroed at 100 yards: 200 yards -3.7", 300 yards -13.51", 400 yards -30.55"

The 30/06 shooting 165gr NP looks like this zeroed at 100 yards: 200 yards -3.74", 300 yards -13.69", 400 yards 31.07"

Quite obviously there is little difference between them whatsoever, trajectory-wise. Now, if you'd like to check the energy at 300 yards, it looks like this: .280/1761 FPE, .35 Whelen/2407 FPE, 30-06/1721 FPE. Absolutely no comparison there. Of course the numbers at 400 yards also clearly bear it out, with the Whelen still carrying over one ton of energy, but the .280 & 30/06 with any loading are marginal at best if one talks 400 yards, elk & moose in the same breath. If you want an even flatter shooting load from the Whelen, look to a 180gr TTSX OR 200gr TSX and they are even flatter shooting and still carry more energy downrange.

If you'd like to look at the Nosler tables, here they are below. And you also might find it interesting to see the Whelen also outperforms the 338/06 in any similar bullet weight and also carries a higher MV than the .338WM with both shooting a 225gr bullet and the .338WM barely squeaks past the .35W (by only 50 FPS) shooting 250gr loads. The Whelen is a very efficient round, the most efficient ever made on the '06 case.

NoslerCustom Ammunition - Nosler - Bullets, Ammunition, Rifles, Brass, Reloading Data, Hunting, Shooting, Reloading, Load Data
That is using factory ammo, everyone knows that 280 is down loaded with factory ammo. Nosler is showing 2775fps with a 160, I am getting 3000fps with 160gr bullets using handloads, that is 7mm mag factory ammo velocities, burning a lot less powder and doing it with a 22" barrel versus the 7mag's 24" barrel, it only drops about 25", which really isnt much difference at 400 yards. It doesnt matter what you shoot, out past 300 yards they all start falling like lead balloons. Same goes with the 338 mag, with a 225gr. I am getting about 2900 fps, not the 2750 fps listed for factory loads. I always wanted a 35 Whelen but never bought one because I always questioned how accurate they are, there is not much shoulder for headspacing. But like I said I never owned one so I dont know.
 

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As i just mentiond, yes the 35 Whelan barrel is available in 22 in length.You can get a 26 in barrel in 280 for that gun too.It's easy to look at one source and make a good argument sometimes but there are more loads and data that can make the story much different.Real diffferences start showing up at 400 yards and beyond.Farther than most will ever shoot at game.
 

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That is using factory ammo, everyone knows that 280 is down loaded with factory ammo. Nosler is showing 2775fps with a 160, I am getting 3000fps with 160gr bullets using handloads, that is 7mm mag factory ammo velocities, burning a lot less powder and doing it with a 22" barrel versus the 7mag's 24" barrel, it only drops about 25", which really isnt much difference at 400 yards. It doesnt matter what you shoot, out past 300 yards they all start falling like lead balloons. Same goes with the 338 mag, with a 225gr. I am getting about 2900 fps, not the 2750 fps listed for factory loads. I always wanted a 35 Whelen but never bought one because I always questioned how accurate they are, there is not much shoulder for headspacing. But like I said I never owned one so I dont know.
I completely understand your comments on "factory" ammo, believe me when I say that they are not lost on me. However, I believe when we discuss cartridges, and cartridge differences, it is also not 100% correct to use one's pet rifle & load to make a comparison, as all rifles are different and what's safe & accurate in your rifle, may not be in a single shot H&R platform (my personal opinion). Thus, again in my opinion, the correct way to compare would be by using factory proven ammunition. For larger game (any big game) at any reasonable range there is simply no comparison when you talk a .280, 30/06 and .35 Whelen. Heck, use a 7mag and compare as well. I've owned four Whelens in the last 25 yrs and still own two. All have been more than adequately accurate and the two I own now, an Encore (24") and a Rem 750 Carbine are more accurate than you'd believe, likely. There's plenty of shoulder there, trust me.

I understand that there's more than one way to skin a cat and that everyone likes what they like. That's the way it's supposed to be. However, I still believe I made a very fair comparison, using the same type bullets and same quality factory ammo maker. I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.
 
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I completely understand your comments on "factory" ammo, believe me when I say that they are not lost on me. However, I believe when we discuss cartridges, and cartridge differences, it is also not 100% correct to use one's pet rifle & load to make a comparison, as all rifles are different and what's safe & accurate in your rifle, may not be in a single shot H&R platform (my personal opinion). Thus, again in my opinion, the correct way to compare would be by using factory proven ammunition. For larger game (any big game) at any reasonable range there is simply no comparison when you talk a .280, 30/06 and .35 Whelen. Heck, use a 7mag and compare as well. I've owned four Whelens in the last 25 yrs and still own two. All have been more than adequately accurate and the two I own now, an Encore (24") and a Rem 750 Carbine are more accurate than you'd believe, likely. There's plenty of shoulder there, trust me.

I understand that there's more than one way to skin a cat and that everyone likes what they like. That's the way it's supposed to be. However, I still believe I made a very fair comparison, using the same type bullets and same quality factory ammo maker. I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.
Like I said, I never owned or personaly know anyone with one so I dont know a whole lot about them. I almost bought one years ago when Remington came out with the 700 Classic chambered in it but I let my dad talk me out of it. My dad is a very smart individual but I do to this day wish I wouldnt have listened to him on that. I bought a Winchester model 70 XTR Featherweight in a 30-06 instead. Later in life when I made another attempt to buy a 35 Whelen he talked me into the 338win mag, which I dont have any complaints about. My favorite hunting gun is my 280 and I have taking elk, bear, deer, and American bison with it. I dont even use my 338 mag, although it is a beauty and a real shooter, the 280 can do it all when loaded properly with good bullets.
 

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As i just mentiond, yes the 35 Whelan barrel is available in 22 in length.You can get a 26 in barrel in 280 for that gun too.It's easy to look at one source and make a good argument sometimes but there are more loads and data that can make the story much different.Real diffferences start showing up at 400 yards and beyond.Farther than most will ever shoot at game.
And, just one question... when the OP asks for info dealing 200-300 yards, what difference does 400 yards and beyond matter?? :confused:
 

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I was trying to make the point that caliber is not important at ranges from 300 yards or less.The difference in trajectory between a 338 Lapua and a 243 Winchester or 308 or whatever is just not that much to say one is better, at 300 yards, than another.Energy levels are another matter.The real differences come at ranges longer than 400 yards, Thats all I was saying and if ya want to go by the OP's question why did the 35 Whelen come into play here.I have no issues with that round I would like to have one some day.
 

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H&R 1871 - Barrel Accessory Program

Kind of nice the 280 has a 26" barrel! You could load up some 180 Bergers in that thing (at least possibly) or any of the 175's and do just fine for moose and elk up to most any sane distance. Will still knock over plates at 300 yards.

As well, there is still 35 Whelen barrels available, which personally would also be my choice.

AND....there is a 32" long 45/70. Remember, that used to be one of the tops in the long distance buffalo game. Something tells me it'll still do the job just fine. Double bonus, since the OP already has the more likely shorter 45/70 barrel already, he can buy/load for 2 different set ups with the same dies/box of ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
H&R 1871 - Barrel Accessory Program
AND....there is a 32" long 45/70. Remember, that used to be one of the tops in the long distance buffalo game. Something tells me it'll still do the job just fine. Double bonus, since the OP already has the more likely shorter 45/70 barrel already, he can buy/load for 2 different set ups with the same dies/box of ammo.
Actually I have the 32 inch barrel 45-70 and its the buffalo classic stock and forend.
I'm still looking for to see what caliber, i would prefer a 30 caliber because there is tons of bullets and bullet types available for reloading where as others are more limited especially the .35 whelen that's mainly why i left it out.
 
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