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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just go into hand loading and was wonder what kind of accuracy i can expect to get out of my factory rifle.

I have a Remington 700 sps in 300 win mag. With a Vortex Diamondback scope.

I have tried
Sierra 180 grain BT got about 3-5" groups They seem all over the place

hornady match 168 grain BTHP got 2-2.5" groups

Speer hot core 180 grain hcsp got 2" groups shot one 3shot group inside 3/4" but couldn't do it again so i think it was just luck

This was all at 100 yards with winchester brass and cci magnum primers.
I have tried two different powders, imr 7828, imr 4831 and several different OAl and hasn't seemed to make a difference.

The speer bullets seem pretty consistent and i am pretty happy with them but i would like to get better groups with some higher bc bullets.

Seems i cant get anny better than 2" groups I was wondering if that could be all that my scope of gun is capable of or is it me.
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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You're asking that age old question - "me or the gun/ammo".

Hard to tell without watching you shoot and handrolling your ammo. Could be your bench setup and how you support the rifle. Maybe the care and detail of the handloading, or even the bedding of the rifle and mounting of the scope.

Best thing is to have patience, do a good job cleaning after shooting sessions, shoot slowly to prevent barrel overheating, watch your sight picture/breathing/squeezing, have the front support device as close to under the receiver as you can reasonably get it and the rifle adequately supported while shooting.
 

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Buy a box of factory Ammo.That might get rid of one problem. Follow Kdub post first !!
I have done well with H1000 , but first let's see what the rifle will do .If the rifle still is all over the place WITH FACTORY AMMO, have a friend shoot it too!.
If two shooters shoot the same groups , look at the scope mounting and rifle .
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I actually started shoot off a picknik table and i thought that was the problem, but have since built a very sturdy shooting table that is buried into the ground and have made a couple of sandbags that work nicly.

I've shoot 1" groups with my wife's 270" and factory federal ammunition so i feel i an shoot a lot better than my gun/ammo is.

I had a buddy shooting with me (who has way to much money) tell me that i wouldn't be able to get any better groups than that without spending a lot of money on a high end scope, which i would like to buy someday but not in the budget now,

Should a vortex diamondback scope hold a better than 2 moa zero?
 

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So check the scope mounting and make sure everything is tight . Get a box or so of Factory ammo , as the regular federal ammo is cheap and also shoots fairly good and give it a try.I threw a few boxes at a target one day to find a scope base loose .
So we all been there . You do not need to spend a years wage on a scope , as my father -in -Law has a cheap Bushnel Sportsman on his 300 Wm which he has used for 15 years .
You can prove a scope by taking a shot then moving a few clicks to the right , shoot then again back it to your first setting and turn the same amount of clicks to the left Shoot , then back to your first setting . Should the shots follow your scope setting your good . That is if the rings and base's are confirmed as being tight . Also make sure the scope has not moved during recoil.
 

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The short answer to your question is: You should expect better accuracy than that from your gun/loads. Whether or not you are consistently up to it, your Speer HC loads shot into 3/4" once, so that tells you the gun and loads are capable. I will also say that I've never known a person who could shoot a box of shells once or twice a year and keep this groups under 1"...myself included!

If you have an accurate .22LR, take it to the range and shoot 50 shots, really concentrating on your breathing and trigger control. Once you're feeling good about the way you and that gun are shooting, go to the big boomer and repeat. More often than not neither the gun, nor the ammo, is the limiting factor.
 

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with the kind of groups he is getting right now, the scope click test won't work. As mentioned above, start with a box of factory ammo. Check all of your scope mount/base bolt/screws to be sure they are tight. Shoot your best 3 shot group. Have a friend shoot his/her best 3 shot group. Compare.

Also, after verifying that all of the scope attachment hardware is tight, if you still can't shoot good groups-try a different scope! If a different scope does not shoot well-maybe the barrel is not broken in yet??? How many rounds total have you put through this gun so far?
 

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OK, try this.....works alot of the time. First, be sure the scope rings are tight and lock tite them in!!
1.Adust you scope for parallax. You have a ring that turns and adjusts for this. DO NOT rely on the distance markings on the scope. Set you rifle on its rests that you shoot from and look at a target about 100 yards away. Your rifle is rock steady. Without moving the rifle, look through the scope and move your head side to side. If the crosshairs move at all you need to adjust for parallax until the crosshairs don't move at all when you shift your head. I've seen this take 1" off groups!

2. Get a dollar bill and see if it fits between the barrel and forearm groove. See if you can get the dollar to slide easily up and down the groove without getting hung up. If not, consider taking off the stock and using sandpaper in the groove, take the wood down to where the dollar will slide easily up and down the full length of the barrel. You have just free-floated your barrel.

3. Different ways to do this....a rifle will shoot best when you have about 1/64" to 1/32" between the start of the rifling and the ogive of the bullet. The way I check requires that I have a cleaning rod in case the bullet gets stuck. Have an unsized case with a couple of thin cuts in the neck so the neck of the case will grip the bullet but allow it to be pushed back by the rifling. Hand seat a bullet into the case fairly far out. Close the bolt on it and then carefully extract it. The bullet should be pushed back to where it just touches the rifling. Using your calipers, note what that is and back off your seating die so that when you seat the bullets, they'll be just shy of the rifling. Theory....when the bullet has to make a big jump after ignition it could contact the rifling a little askew.


4. Is your barrel fouled? Copper fouling will impare accuracy.

See if this helps. If not, find a gunsmith to do a trigger job. Get the trigger to where it breaks crisply @ 2.5 to 3 lbs. While it is there, have him check the bedding on the action. Maybe have the action glass bedded. Perhaps have an adjustable, spring dampener put into your forearm. This allows you to adjust the pressure you forearm places on the barrel.

Sometimes it is YOU! Use earplugs plus muffs. Place a bag of lead shot between your shoulder and the butt of the rifle. Maybe get a Limbsaver or similar, recoil pad. Essentially, isolate the rifle as much as possible. Try this. While you aren't watching, have a friend load your rifle with either a loaded cartridge or a fired case. Squeeze off a shot. You'll find out quick if you're flinching. Maybe next you buy a lead sled for bench use.

When getting groups, you need a consistent barrel temperature. I take 3 rifles to the range so I can rotate between shots. Or better yet, I'll take a magnum revolver and bust hanging metal targets between shots with the rifles. Keep the barrels from getting too hot.
I expect you have a sub MOA rifle in your possession. Sometimes, like children, guns just need a little raisin' to get 'em behavin'.
 

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Yup.

Try to get your hands on a bag of shotgun shot. Put it between the rifle and your shoulder while you're testing.

I do this with anything that kicks harder than my M1 Garand and it seems to help my groups.
 

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I have a SPS in .30-06 that didn't perform as well as I would have liked when I first got it. The groups started to tighten after about 100 rounds or so and now it puts almost anything I put through it into 1-1.5" groups. That is assuming your scope and mount is ok and your loads are good as well.
 

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99 times out of 100 once you have made sure your bases and rings and scope are right, the problem is that little nut behind the trigger.
Inconsistency kills groups.
Fix the little things first so you feel like you are accomplishing something.
Then work on technique.
Practice, practice, practice, GOOD technique.
 

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Hey geneus,

Just bought a k31 7.55 x 55 Swiss and was looking for some bullets. Read the reviews.
Maybe start with good Norma brass, expensive but worth it and some of these Hornady AMax.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1165149407

And like Kawabuggy said, perhaps you need to break in the barrel. Try bore polish or buy Tubb Final finish.

http://www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html
http://www.twincityrodandgun.com/PDF files/Rifle Bore Lapping.pdf
http://www.davidtubb.com/finalfinish.html

Wishing you good results in your quest. I know you have a good sub MOA rifle there.
 

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K31

First of all I think you should start your own subject on a new forum , as we are replying to another Member with regards to his situation. There are a few owners of these rifles on the forums that would be very happy to help you too with yours.

From what I have read the K31 is a good shooter . I doubt if your rifle would need all that work to the inside of the barrel , as more cleaning rods have ruined barrels than bullets . Try a bore snake from the reciver end then or use some bore foam. Look at the crown to see if any one has put a mark on the end of very end surface of your barrel .

The only thing that might hamper getting good groups from the start would be that rear site . You might invest in a scope or a dot site arrangement .
Hope this helps :)
Happy
 

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I just go into hand loading and was wonder what kind of accuracy i can expect to get out of my factory rifle.

I have a Remington 700 sps in 300 win mag. With a Vortex Diamondback scope.
I'm guessing black synthetic stock. Some synthetic stocks in a thumper caliber will do that to you, especially in hot weather as it softens up a tad unless its been reinforced with pillar blocks for the mounting screws and an internal steel plate or plates inside the molding. I don't know if your stock does or not.

I know you have a 1-10 twist so you are good for anything from 150 grain to 200 grain. Other than trying a different bullet type I really would suggest trying different weights to see if you rifle has a marked preference for one or the other. You can sacrifice bc for accuracy, at 100 yards any critter getting hit won't know the difference. Also if 100 yards is your most likely range try flat base bullets, you don't really need boat tails till you are getting a ways down range and sometimes all you need is just a tiny change.

For hunting if you get 3" at 200 yards you are going to kill anything you shoot at unless you are going after mountain sheep on the next mountain.

Just to toss in another twist my most accurate powder in my 300 Wby and my brothers 7 MM Rem mag is 4350. Might try a small cannister of that and see if your rifle likes it any better. Its old school but it still works for me.
 

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Just to toss in another twist my most accurate powder in my 300 Wby and my brothers 7 MM Rem mag is 4350. Might try a small cannister of that and see if your rifle likes it any better. Its old school but it still works for me.[/quote]

Just what 4350 would that be , as I know there is three :)
 

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Just to toss in another twist my most accurate powder in my 300 Wby and my brothers 7 MM Rem mag is 4350. Might try a small cannister of that and see if your rifle likes it any better. Its old school but it still works for me.
Just what 4350 would that be , as I know there is three :)
In my case the old stuff is long gone and I'm using XMR 4350, used to be H4350 about a hundred years ago when I bought my first can of it.
 

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I just go into hand loading and was wonder what kind of accuracy i can expect to get out of my factory rifle.

I have a Remington 700 sps in 300 win mag. With a Vortex Diamondback scope.

I have tried
Sierra 180 grain BT got about 3-5" groups They seem all over the place

hornady match 168 grain BTHP got 2-2.5" groups

Speer hot core 180 grain hcsp got 2" groups shot one 3shot group inside 3/4" but couldn't do it again so i think it was just luck

This was all at 100 yards with winchester brass and cci magnum primers.
I have tried two different powders, imr 7828, imr 4831 and several different OAl and hasn't seemed to make a difference.

The speer bullets seem pretty consistent and i am pretty happy with them but i would like to get better groups with some higher bc bullets.

Seems i cant get anny better than 2" groups I was wondering if that could be all that my scope of gun is capable of or is it me.
Geneous-
You didn't say if this is a new rifle or not but that might be one problem.
I bought a new Winchester Model 70 in 7 Rem Mag. This is a big caliber for me, and my first groups were about 3". But even with a light trigger, I have noticed the group sizes getting smaller the more I shoot this rifle.
As the barrel fowls and gets re-cleaned, it just gets smoother and more accurate. Also flat base bullets consistantly give me the best accuracy, for every one of the rifles I shoot, both the Speer and the Sierra, will outshoot any premium boattail bullet.
I can shoot all of my smaller calibers better than this 7mag, but a few days ago I worked up a load with the 160 grain Sierras and shot four groups that averaged about 1 inch. Some were .6. That is as good as I can do.
I also took the trigger pull down to 2.6#. that helped a lot.
You'll figure it out, and that's the fun part.
I don't think the one good group you shot with the Speer bullet was luck. Remember the barrels on these larger calibers heat up fast, so slow down and let the barrel cool down between shots and you will notice a big difference in your groups.
 

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Oh ! Same thing happened to me . the more I shot the better the groups .Then the same with any other rifle . Must be once the barrel wears in a bit , the shooter also gets used to the gun, and gets comfortable shooting . That improves everthing . It is called practise .
 
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