Which .444?

The triple 4 is a very good hunting caliber. I had the opportunity to pick up one of the early saddlestocked ones with the 24 inch barrel back in the late sixties. Over the years it has served me well.  A couple of my old hunting partners picked themselves up the same gun, only a later model which had the pistol grip stock and sported a 22 inch tube. Back then you were pretty limited  in the reloading department, the 240 grain soft point being the only bullet available. The advent of Hornadys 265 grainer was a leap forward for the caliber. Today their are a vast assortment of bullets that are on the market which make the 444 shine. I've never felt hindered by the length of by barrel in the woods, it has always been easy to tote around. Mine sports a lyman peep sight and the added barrel length adds to the sighting radius that makes those longer shots seem easier.  As to which rifle I'd choose, I guess I'd stay with my Marlin model, although I've seen and handled the Winchesters and find them very appealable. I'am not sure if the Marlins still come with the Micro Groove barrel, but I'am sure that the Winchesters is cut rifleing. I believe that the cut rifleing would be a plus when considering cast bullets. Which ever one you choose I'm sure the you will find yourself grabbing it first when you head for the woods. Have fun.

Big Ed,

We had a thread on the Marlin vs. Winchester back in November on our old forum.   I went back and copied a couple of posts that I think you might find interesting.   They are copied exactly as they were originally posted.  The dates are included in case you want to go to that thread.  

God Bless,



Marshall S.
Re: Marlin or Winchester
Mon Nov 27 09:42:50 2000


Pat,

Yes, you are correct in that I do have a preference for the Marlin lever guns! It's not a reflection on the Winchester quality or serviceability... it's just my personal bias.

I prefer the simplicity of the Marlin action, and the ease of field stripping... one screw, and the bolt comes out for cleaning. Try that with a Winchester!

Also, I've never had a Marlin that didn't shoot well! Not one! I've had several Winchesters that were marginal performers at best, but perhaps that is because I really wasn't motivated to MAKE them shoot.

Lastly, and probably the only substantial reason beyond preference and bias, is that the stock design of the Marlin transfers recoil differently than the Winchester, making them more pleasant to shoot when pumping heavy loads through these light little carbines.

For the .444 and a light load:

15.0g Unique/Any Lg Rifle Primer/240g WFNPB or 250g LFNGC sized to .432" This load is very pleasant to shoot, and generates about 1300 fps. Also very accurate, except the PB bullets don't perform well in Ported Barrels, the GC bullets do great!

Forgive my "justification of opinion". Both guns are well designed and manufactured pieces of equipment... I just have a very biased preference!

God Bless,

Marshall



James Gates-ex Winchester Man
My two cents!
Mon Nov 27 13:34:21 2000


Marshall is correct on all his thoughts on the Winchester vs. Marlin lever guns. I might add this.. the Winchester brings up the next cartridge on the final snap of the lever DOWN and the Marlin on the lever up stroke...much, much smoother.The Marlin bolts are supported much better in the receiver...again much smoother. It is still easier to mount scopes! The Marlin is still machined from a solid block of steel, the Wincesters are CAST. For every Winchester/U,S.Repeating Arms lever gun shipped today, Marlin ships three. Wichesters rattle so much they have been called "Chicken Callers"! The return rate on Winchesters after 1964 were, are are, higher than Marlin.
All in All...The Marlin is Better. I say this after spending many, many years with Winchester-Western.
Best Regards from Old Town Hammock, Florida....James Gates

To my fellow big-bore lever fans-another 2 cents on Marlin vs. Win.  I've enjoyed everyones imput greatly and in that I've owned now both a Mar.'95SS in 45/70 and Win.94 Timber Carbine in 444 can share a few observations.  First, the Win. TC.  I must admit I did some modifications to the Win.- after reading in Gun Tests about the Marlin Alaskan Co-Pilot of Wild West Guns modification- ie.  trigger relocated and lightened, fiber-optic front sight with Ashley ghost ring rear, Pachmyer Decelerator pad and a Burris 2-7x w/Wayne quick detachable rings mounted on a steel mount forward the receiver- Scout style.  Using Marshall's great 330gr. DCGGC and the recommended load of H335, I was abtaining an aver. of 2020fps. from the 17.5" bbl. and it was shooting 5 shots into 15/16" @ 50yds. consistently.  In saturated phonebook penetration tests, the load was averaging 23" with some bullet deformation but excellent weight retention-95%+.  Can't wait to try the Re7 to check bullet integrity at close range for the 'dangerous' stuff!  With out scope, gun weighs 6lbs./ with scope-7lbs.13oz.  For me, it's surprisingly pleasant to shoot-50+ full bore rds.without flinching at bench- and carry all day with the hand wrapped around the receiver.  Anyway, only downside I find so far(300rds.+) is the rifling twist rate-1:38 and the fact it has to be cleaned from the muzzle end.  Marlin, on the other hand, with the removal of 4 parts is ready to clean!  Now that they've gone back to the Ballard type rifling, it's a real tack-driver with cast or jacketed bullets for a lever gun.  Personally, I'm going to have Wild West modify the Marlin to 457 Mag. with the features of the Win.TC.  Conclusion:  Some of us like the looks of the backside of a silver dollar better than the front- thing is:  Both sides can get you what you want!  Best Wishes,  Jim (H&H- Hard & Heavy)    

Cal,

Initially, the gunsmith started with a Weaver aluminum base and taper-fitted it to the barrel.  The aluminum couldn't stand up to the recoil I was subjecting it to so I had to have another one custom made out of steel.  I have absolutely no problem with it!  After all the trouble and expense, I found out at:  www.wildwestguns.com- that they make a Scout mount for mounting a 'LER' scope for both the Marlin and Winchester forward of the receiver.  (also, they make a fantastic Ghost Ring for both rifles!)    

The Pach. Decelerator pad has quite a reputation for taming recoil.  It's been used on everything- Wild West uses it on all their custom rifles such as their 50 Alaskan (fires a 450 gr. jacketed Bearclaw bullet @ 2050fps from a modified Marlin for 4200 ft.lbs.!)          

Best Wishes,
Jim



P.S.  Cal, when I get the rifle back, I'll send you a better picture.