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Discussion Starter #1
So me and my dad have this debate
About how muzzle energy is delivered into a target. I told him that bullets don't expend alot of their force be wise they go through or half way penetrate and have so little surface area. But he said says. A 50 bmg has got to have surface area. I told him yeah but not as much as if you shot someone with a steel plate = lots of surface are. I mean look at recoil the butt of a gun has large surface area and doesn't pass through the shoot and pushes you back. While I read people or animals don't drop fro
A gunshot wound because of the energy.
 

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So me and my dad have this debate
About how muzzle energy is delivered into a target. I told him that bullets don't expend alot of their force be wise they go through or half way penetrate and have so little surface area. But he said says. A 50 bmg has got to have surface area. I told him yeah but not as much as if you shot someone with a steel plate = lots of surface are. I mean look at recoil the butt of a gun has large surface area and doesn't pass through the shoot and pushes you back. While I read people or animals don't drop fro
A gunshot wound because of the energy.

HUH?

Sorry, too hard to follow.
So are you asking if its bullet meplat or the flat face of a bullet that does it or are you asking if its bullet weight over velocity?

And the .50 BMG does it big, and heavy and moderately fast so its not a great example if you ask me.
Except it tends to destroy what it hits and if that is your intention, then it's a good thing.

Me? Im a heavy for caliber at moderate speeds kinda guy.
 

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So me and my dad have this debate
About how muzzle energy is delivered into a target. I told him that bullets don't expend alot of their force be wise they go through or half way penetrate and have so little surface area. But he said says. A 50 bmg has got to have surface area. I told him yeah but not as much as if you shot someone with a steel plate = lots of surface are. I mean look at recoil the butt of a gun has large surface area and doesn't pass through the shoot and pushes you back. While I read people or animals don't drop fro
A gunshot wound because of the energy.
I suggest you re-think your post, and re-do it, I have no idea what the **** your talking about..
 

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TK,

This goes back to some of the other recent threads we've had about "killing" formulas. The basic thing to understand is that muzzle energy doesn't kill anything...it's the bullet, and what it does on impact, that determines how and why it is lethal. For example, a small-caliber, pointed, FMJ bullet that passes cleanly through a target imparts very little of its kinetic energy to said target, because it basically just bores a hole through it, roughly one caliber in diameter. (If this is a 50 caliber hole, from a BMG round...well, that's a pretty big hole!) If the bullet doesn't expand or tumble, a good deal of the "energy" the bullet carried is expended on whatever it hits after going through the target. If the bullet expands or tumbles at all, as it passes through the target, that changes things dramatically.

A bullet with a wide, flat meplat might push all the way through a target, but in doing so, it will transfer a higher percentage of the energy it has, as a function of resistance against the greater frontal area on the bullet. A pointed bullet that experiences rapid, but controlled expansion, is an excellent compromise between these two extremes. Regardless of what formula used to calculate the energy a bullet leaves the muzzle with, it is the wound channel (both temporary and permanent) caused by the bullet as it passes through a target that results in shock and lethal trauma. If you're talking about the ability to stop something in its tracks, without a CNS hit, this kind of performance is what you really want.

IMHO, the perfect self-defense bullet is one that penetrates deeply while causing an extensive wound channel, but does not exit...the perfect big-game bullet is one that does all of the above, except that it DOES exit, leaving a sizable hole for relatively easy tracking, if necessary.

I'm not sure if that helps you and your dad figure out what bullets do the most damage, but that's how they work.
 

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Any game bullet kills by destroying tissue, tearing up meat and muscle and organ. Disruption of electrical signals. It's true for everything from a .22LR HP to the Browning Big 50. Personally, I like a passthru after all that destruction. Easier to follow the trail. But even there, that trail isn't going far.
 

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4 attempts at trying to figure out your question and I have failed. Try not argueing while typing hahahaha
 

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I would suggest having your dad write in, or assemble your post in "Word", use the spelling and grammar check, then cut and paste here. If you are asking what I think you might be asking, go to this link about suppressed rifles, and scroll about 3/4 of the way down the article to where they start talking about bullet shapes. It says quite a bit about how bullets work in tissue. Actually, the whole article is worth reading, if you are so inclined.

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/highpow.html
 

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IF I can get anything outta that at all, IF pa saids the big .50 is a killer that doesn't need to expand, he's right.

IF you want to compare it to a flying "steel plate." (?) I don't know how you gonna get a plate to fly but for sure the "impact" would depend on the diameter, thickness (weight) and speed. ??
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What im trying to say is a object that passes through the body doesn't deliver 100% of its energy compared to somthing that stays with the body. Like if a person was hit buy ... a power pole it doesn't go through the body it stays with it and delivers it for e and moves the body. A bullet goes through even a 20mm can't through you backwards from muzzle energy?
 

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Well as far as killing big game goes, an exit is always preferable in my opinion. I wouldnt want to be hit by a 12" dia steel plate going 300 FPS, but i also wouldnt expect it to kill a big game animal, unless you broke its neck or crushed its skull..I guess your dad would be right if you think the steel plate is more deadly.

I guess if you shoot a deer or elk with a bullet that fragments and fails to exit after shredding the lungs, you might get more dramatic results, a lot of people prefer that. I would prefer to have a more reliable blood trail to follow, if and when you have to track a wounded animal.. So maybe your both right...i dont think the steel plate is a good example of what you are trying to convey though..
 

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I "think" this post is about wasted energy? A projectile that passes all the way through an animal does waste energy.

"Perfect" is when it falls inches on the far side of the critter. Leaves two holes and and has expended all/most energy on target!

"Less than perfect" is when the the projectile does NOT leave two holes!

"Perfect is very rare" Firearm/ range/ Critter/ etc.

More is mostly better.


Cheezywan
 

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I think this whole thread is a waste of energy, but then, that's just my opinion! :p
 

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A bullet that exits game with authority, expends more energy from entrance-to-exit than any bullet that stays inside the animal, because the combined effects are deployed at maximum levels throughout the bullet's path. A pointed solid bullet expends its energy the same way, but the unchanging shape does less overall damage if the caliber of the bullet is comparatively small, but still lethal if it passes through key organs and/or the CNS. The larger the caliber and meplat, the more overall damage, and if there is a pass through, then there is more damage. An expanding bullet distrupts even more, but less than if it had forcefully passed through. If the expanding bullet spreads to the size of a larger unexpanded bullet, then the damage is no more or less than the larger unexpanded bullet unless there is no pass-through. Next, if an expanding bullet fragments by design, while the core passes through with authority, then there is more damage. Lastly, higher velocity and explosive expansion, with a core passing through with substantial velocity, causes gross damage that's certainly counter-productive to the intent of meat hunting, and probably more representative of varmint hunting with calibers significantly oversized in comparision to the game. No bullet that stays inside, does more damage than a bullet that exits with authority. Any bullet, that stays inside the game, is lethal if it destroys critical organs or the CNS, and no less lethal than a forceful pass-through. If the game is dangerous, then one wants more damage that might keep the game off the hunter, and thus a pass-through is preferred. The only technical advantage to a bullet staying inside the game is that the hunter doesn't have to consider what the bullet strikes if it had passed through, but one cannot assume there will not be a pass-through because poor or missed hits do happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I don't care about energy or tissue damage all im saying is that if you wanted to knock someone back say 20 ft no bullet will do that. Example I sit a trash can down shoot it. Bullet goes through can doesn't move. I go over and hit it with a non penetrating object say a bat it falls over when I. Hit it. I aslo never been shot either so I don't know what the body does. I should have asked my grandad. He had a 45 slug in his back. But im not talking about even bullets im general any small diameter high velocity matter will not through a person backwards like most people think
 

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Throw a person backwards. I get it now! It's the old, knock an animal off it's feet argument. Like the shotgun blast through the wall in Open Range.
 

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I think someone needs too dig out "Webster's dictionary" while writing a thread. Its "throw" not "through". Course that's provided I'm even understanding what this thread is about. Tend to agree with opinions already mentioned "much ado about nothing".
 
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