[slim 60]

advertised in sportsman guide.. it seem the outlets are steiring us away fro that caliber..its not used much by the military now.. so just makes me wonder..comments welcome.. oh i know its available.. i can buy all i want ..but i don t see it promoted an advertised much.. mabe im not looking in the right places.. slim

 

[AVIVIII]

Probably because with hand loading and modern powder, anything you want to do with a 30-06 can be done in a .308W with a shorter case. Which means a lighter gun and a shorter action.

Just my guess

 

[Saskshooter]

Probably because with hand loading and modern powder, anything you want to do with a 30-06 can be done in a .308W with a shorter case. Which means a lighter gun and a shorter action.

Just my guess

The same logic would suggest that the .30-06 can do as much as the .300WM with modern powders and hand loading. Modern powders and hand loading improve the '06 as much as the .308.

I think the "trend", if it actually exists, would be due to the efforts to sell "new and improved" calibers and the guns they come in, more than any real life difference. It is seldom that any marketing ploy has anything to do with logic or reason.

At least that's my guess.

 

[pisgah]

Who has to advertise .30-06 ammo? The market for it is huge, well-established and, I would guess, fairly static. What they're looking for is increased sales, and they get that by reinventing the wheel every so often and producing new "wonder" cartridges (that often duplicate rounds like the .30-06), that gullible shooters will read about and decide they just have to have.

 

[AVIVIII]

The same logic would suggest that the .30-06 can do as much as the .300WM with modern powders and hand loading. Modern powders and hand loading improve the '06 as much as the .308.

Actually, I don;t believe that the same logic applies simply because you can use the same bullets in each.

In the -06, since it was developed originally to be used with a less efficient powder taking up more case capacity, you are limited to a max pressure of 50,000 CUP. With the advent of modern powder, the 308W can handle the same powders (and a little more, max pressure 52,000 CUP) to get equal, or in some cases, better velocity with equal or less powder. In the case of the 300WM, you are using significantly more powder and are going to require the case capacity to accept that increase. The same is true again when you move up to the 300RUM.

The difference is that despite the case capacity, you can't safely charge an -06 case to 300WM levels, but you can charge a 308W to match (or beat) an -06.

Now, I am definitely not promoting the 308over the -06, or vice versa. But I love my collection of 30-06 rifles and one pistol. The only 308W that I have is a barrel for my Encore, but I hunt 90% of the time with the good old -06.

 

[broom_jm]

Capability of one cartridge versus another has little to do with why -'06 ammo is not being advertised extensively. It is as capable as it ever was and if you want to buy ammo for it, rest assured it will never be hard to find. The reality is that the gun manufacturers and ammo companies work diligently to get people to look at cartridges like the 30-'06 as "old n' busted", so you'll go out and buy the, "new hotness". This is critical to their sales goals and, in all fairness, HAS resulted in some very cool cartridges, bullets and loaded ammunition.

Trying to turn marketing strategy into a competition between one very useful cartridge and another is sheer folly...and a sign that you may be buying into their diabolical plans!

 

[beartracker]

Actually, I don;t believe that the same logic applies simply because you can use the same bullets in each.

In the -06, since it was developed originally to be used with a less efficient powder taking up more case capacity, you are limited to a max pressure of 50,000 CUP. With the advent of modern powder, the 308W can handle the same powders (and a little more, max pressure 52,000 CUP) to get equal, or in some cases, better velocity with equal or less powder. In the case of the 300WM, you are using significantly more powder and are going to require the case capacity to accept that increase. The same is true again when you move up to the 300RUM.

The difference is that despite the case capacity, you can't safely charge an -06 case to 300WM levels, but you can charge a 308W to match (or beat) an -06.

Now, I am definitely not promoting the 308over the -06, or vice versa. But I love my collection of 30-06 rifles and one pistol. The only 308W that I have is a barrel for my Encore, but I hunt 90% of the time with the good old -06.

You can not use the same bullets in a 308 as you do in a 30-06 when you get up to the 200,210, 220 and 240gr bullets assuming you are going to get anywhere near the 30-06 in velocity. Today you can load any modern rifle chambered in 30-06 to the same pressures as the 25-06 or 270. I do not load my 30-06 to equal powder charges of the 308 because I want more velocity than the 308 can give me that is why I use the 30-06 and perfer it over the 308.

I don't care about efficiency when I want more that is why I use the 300Wby instead of the 300WSM. You can not safely charge a 308 to match the velocities of a modern rifle in 30-06. We have done pressure test using a Southwest Products strain gauges on a Mark V 30-06, a Ruger Mk II 30-06 and a Sako 308 loading the 06 to 25-06 and 270 pressures with the 150gr and 165 grain bullets and we have both 06's doing over 3000fps shooting accurately and with out being over pressure and the 308 can not get there in velocity at the same pressures. I have a hunting load for my Mark V that pushes a 165gr bullet using H4350 at 3007fps and that is not the fastest. With IMR4350 we were able to get 3061fps with our test bullet which was a Sierra HPBT and still we remain safe pressure.

Ejection of all case was easy and the primers were not flatten out to indicate over pressure and the gauges we reached with the 30-06 to just at 52,000 and some loads just a little over that. I posted pictures on this forum with chrony readings and pictures of our brass. I disagree that the 308 can run with the 30-06. in velocity, or number of useful bullet weights.

 

[AVIVIII]

You guys have obviously taken it way further than I have. I have a nice load with 165gr BTs that reach out and 'touch' white tails nicely up to 150 yards, which is about the longest shot we get around here. So I honestly haven't had the need or desire to push it, especially not in some of my old guns.

Those are some impressive velocities though!

 

[beartracker]

You guys have obviously taken it way further than I have. I have a nice load with 165gr BTs that reach out and 'touch' white tails nicely up to 150 yards, which is about the longest shot we get around here. So I honestly haven't had the need or desire to push it, especially not in some of my old guns.

Those are some impressive velocities though!

I agree one hundred precent with what you just said!!! Within range limits and on certain game the 30-06 can not do anymore than the 308 and in most hunting environments and on most game the 308 can do what the 30-06 can do. That said, the 308 is not the 30-06. If you use factory ammo except for some specialty ammo, your conclusions were correctly drawn, it is when one handloads today that the 30-06 comes into its own.

 

[MikeG]

Who has to advertise .30-06 ammo? The market for it is huge, well-established and, I would guess, fairly static. What they're looking for is increased sales, and they get that by reinventing the wheel every so often and producing new "wonder" cartridges (that often duplicate rounds like the .30-06), that gullible shooters will read about and decide they just have to have.

You nailed it, marketing 101, if the customers are already beating down your door for a good product that works well, you don't have to push sales.

Buyers will come to you.

 

[jmortimer]

The .308 is not a substitue for the .30-06. It may be one of the best all around cartridges but the .30-06 is "more gun." With lighter .30 caliber bullets it is close but at 180 grains and up it falls behind. There is no point in comparing the two.

 

[miestro_jerry]

I recently got a Rem 700 in 30-06, it is my intermedia distance caliber for me. Beyond a hundred yards, but below 300 yard for me.

It is a great caliber, well document loads and very well proven over the years.

Jerry

 

[beartracker]

Interesting that Nosler finally decided because of many request to chamber their new custom M48 in 30-06 just because of shear demand by customers of their products.

 

[epanzella]

Advertising for 30-06 is like advertising for gravity. It's already everywhere. The goal of advertising is to get you to buy something you would not otherwise buy.

 

[dmsbandit]

'Tracker,
There is something you neglected to mention when you were talking about your '06 velocities in the Mark V. Weatherby rifles have a long throat and alot of freebore that allow them to deal with higher pressures of the Weatherby Cartridges. Your gun's freebore would allow you to safely load the 165s to velocities others couldn't reach. I know 2800+ fps is about all I can get with my Marlin and accuracy suffers at that speed.

 

[pisgah]

>The difference is that despite the case capacity, you can't safely charge an -06 case to 300WM levels, but you can charge a 308W to match (or beat) an -06.

Well, with 150 gr and lighter bullets you can, but you will be hard-pressed to match or beat the .30-06 with heavier bullets. I'd say the .30-06/300 WM relationship is all but identical to that of the .308/.30-06 relationship. It's no trick to equal a .300 with a 150 on the '06, but as you go heavier the .300 starts to strut it's stuff. And it it's only in the heavier bullets that there's more than a nickle's worth of difference.

 

[beartracker]

'Tracker,
There is something you neglected to mention when you were talking about your '06 velocities in the Mark V. Weatherby rifles have a long throat and alot of freebore that allow them to deal with higher pressures of the Weatherby Cartridges. Your gun's freebore would allow you to safely load the 165s to velocities others couldn't reach. I know 2800+ fps is about all I can get with my Marlin and accuracy suffers at that speed.

This is true but I also was over 3000fps in my Ruger M77 and of course Rugers are built well.

 

[broom_jm]

'Tracker,
There is something you neglected to mention when you were talking about your '06 velocities in the Mark V. Weatherby rifles have a long throat and alot of freebore that allow them to deal with higher pressures of the Weatherby Cartridges. Your gun's freebore would allow you to safely load the 165s to velocities others couldn't reach. I know 2800+ fps is about all I can get with my Marlin and accuracy suffers at that speed.

Bandit, I know the Weatherby barrels chambered for Weatherby cartridges are cut with a long throat, to keep pressures safe. I'm not sure standard cartridges, like the -'06, are necessarily cut that way. Is the length of throat determined by the reamer being used, or is the throat cut separately?

 

[osprey572ci]

You nailed it, marketing 101, if the customers are already beating down your door for a good product that works well, you don't have to push sales.

Buyers will come to you.

Ding Ding....end of story.
You don't have to promote a product as popular as the '06. It's the crap lying around they can't normally get rid of they market.

 

[16 Bore]

I'd bet that Ruger and Thompson would love to see it disappear so they could sell their little red headed step children...