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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Friends All....Over the years I have been asked many times what I thought would be a real wilderness firearm. I am sure I may ruffle some feathers, but here goes! The firearm I will describe will do nothing for your ego, it will not be your "show off" gun. and will do nothing if you need a psychological boost to your manhood.
Get a Plain Jane Savage/Stevens 12 ga. 3" mag double gun. Chop the barrels to 18 3/4" and have Remington long choke tubes installed. Get the Improved Cylinder, Full choke (they have one for steel/lead), and one of their super tight "Turkey Tubes". Using fine grit, sand blast the thing, and apply Brownells baking lacquer and a poly finish on the wood. Install a Lyman 2-blade folding rear sight and a "Fire Sight" front rifle sight. Install sling swivels. Buy an extra set of all springs and firing pins.
As for loads....Now you can shoot everything from buckshot, single ball loads, muli-ball loads (3-.570" lead balls), rifled slugs, and birdshot! Think about it! Now for heavy and dangerous game...Load Marshall's 12 ga. hourglass slug (525 grs. of hard bullet alloy) @ 1300/1400 fps. That's a old time buff load! Set one of the folding Lyman blades for that load @ 75 yards and the other blade for one of the other muli-ball loads. Leave both blades down for birdshot.
You now have the most versatile firearm in the world!
Best Regards, James



<!--EDIT|James Gates|Mar. 27 2002,07:29-->
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Righto....I was speaking of the basic Stevens 311 series. The same design with more frills has been made under both company names and also some brand name business. Yes, the 311 breaks down like doubles do.
When I was discussing choke tubes, I failed to mention "rifled choke" tubes. They work like the early English "Paradox" guns with a few inches of rifle twist near the muzzle. It's somewhat amazing to see the stabilization these put on a slug. Certainly enough for a lung area shot at 100 yards.
Best Regards, James
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The three barrel gun is a "Drillinge", two barrel hammer shotgun is a "Hahn-Doppelflinten", two barrel hammerless shotgun is a "Selbstspanner-Doppelflinten", a four barrel gub in is a"Veirling"...JCG
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Come on Now, Let's rethink this thing! What I suggeted uses one hull, one powder, one primer, and can shoot one ball, multi-balls (3-.570"), slugs, buckshot, some 10 different size birdshot, nails, 10 dimes, and even small gravel. Can be reloaded with the most simple kind of tools. Can be loaded with smokless powder, blackpowder, Pyrodex, Clean-Shot, and even match heads. In fact, about anything one can get to fit into the shell. One can clean out a room with two loads of red pepper powder. 12" of copper wire rolled up in the shell makes an excellent defensive load. Fence stapes also work great as do carpet tacks.
Oh well, It's time to feed my bulldogs!.....James
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OK...Let's say "Push Comes To Shove" and we have to go real primitive!
First...Get a 100 or so of Activ 2 3/4" hulls (never need sizing), 500 primers, a slug or ball mold(.690/.700") an adjustable shotshell shot/powder measure (blackpowder, Clean Shot, and Pyrodex @ equal volume powder to shot), a few Lee dippers in cc's to cinvert to grains of smokeless powder, a Ballistic Products roll crimp head (can be used by hand, a 6' saction of 12 ga. barrel, sharpened, for a wad cutter, a wood dowel with nail (less head) to deprime with, and a wood dowel to prime with. Lead can be carried or scrounged. primitive shot can be made by pouring melted lead in a coffee can with holes about the size pellets wanted, drop into a pot of water. Buckshot made by rolling pieces of lead sqousre between two hard surfaces. Wads can be cut from cardboard, etc. Filler wads made from bout ant material from moss to rags. Additional pellets can be about anything you have to use, even marbles. If worse comes to worse....prime a hull, put it in the gun and muzzle load the rest.
From this low level up to whatever equipment you can dig up! By the way..Match heads do woeks as does old pieces of cello movie film! Blackpowder can also by made if you rob a drug store. Try all this with your other modern firearms.
Best Regards, James
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Splendid Indeed! This has been an excellent run. I should have named the post "Extreme Wilderness Survival Firearm". There have been some excellent choices mentioned. It goes to show that we all have an idea what we woild need to feed and proyect ourselves.
I got to thinking about this thing and agree that a double muzzleloading shotgun would be tough to beat. I hunt with a 10 ga Davide Pedersoli Deluxe and would not be concerned at all if that was what I had to survive with. All the loads mentioned would work. Less gear to carry (loading tools)and subing caps for primers.
Great run! Best Regards, James
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
The 311 series is OK with steel, but if you have tubes put, find someome who can put the Remington long tubes in (and get the steel shot tubes). If not go with one of the better known and don't forget to pick up the "rifled" tube, as it does give slugs a better range.
Weight being to question....when I thought up this run, I felt one would be "holed up" somewhere and not "trekking". Marshall's idea of a 20 ga. works if the same custom features are used. I have a .570" round ball load for 20 ga, that is quite mean.
And Mike G.....The germans, between the wars, sent an interesting rifle liner into the States. Most were set up for 12 ga. and were .38-55. What was neat about them was the method of installation. The back end was made to fit the shotshell chamber rim and the front end was threaded.The first nut to go one was tapered to fit the shotgun's muzzle and the second nut was pulled up as a lock. Both were knurled and was easy to set up with hand pressure. With the folding rear sight I mentioned, one of the two, could be set for the liner.
This has been an outstanding run! We tend to get wrapped up in the techo side of loading, etc at times and a run like this let's us be "creative"
My great-great uncle was a Capt.in the 1st Florida (1905) and brought a shotgun made from 3/4" pipe (with a chamber) that slide inside another pipe with a cap and nail. He took it off a Moro that didn't need it anymore (Uncle Harry carried a pair of Colt 45LC with 7 1/2" barrels). The Moro had killed on of Uncle Harry's men with the thing. It just goes to show that if things get real bad, we can "devise" Another interesting story about smoothbores....At the battle of Breed's Hill (it wasn't at Bunker Hill) the Americans ran out of lead and had use pewter for musket balls...now you know why the orders were not to fire until one could see the whites of their eyes. It is recorded that a blacksmith was using horse shoe nails...early non-toxic shot? say what? The best anti-people device I ever saw was kegs of railroad spikes with C4, fused, lit, and rolled down the hill to the Wogs! Wonderful disply of Make-do!
Best Regards, James



<!--EDIT|James Gates|Mar. 30 2002,13:33-->
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Friends All....Awhile ago a friend brought over a SxS that he is fixing up, as per my recipe, for a river boat gun. It is on of Stoeger's "Coach Guns" in 12 gauge. It has 20" barrels (IC&M), matte finish, and English striaght stock. It weighs in at 6.5 pounds. It takes both the 2 3/4" and 3" shells and retails around $350.00. Oh yes, double triggers and coil springs. At 20", the barrel walls are thick enough for tube installation (need to be at min .84") Stoeger also has a Plain Jane blue, but checkered. at $310.00.
I think it has real potential! (It's also available in 20 ga, but weight is the same??)
Best Regards, James
 
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