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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hodgdon controls the sale of Winchester powders. It seems to me that they have an agenda of selling only Hodgdon brand powder. A fine example of this is: According to Hodgdon Win 748 is directly in between Varget and BL-C(2) in approximate burn rate.
Yet in the 308, they all but refuse to show load data for any bullets 150-200 grains in weight.

Now this is only one specific example, However I wonder if Hodgdon will effectively kill the brand for the sake of selling only their branded stuff.

Any thoughts?
 

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They also own IMR and are still actively improving those powders. The winchester brand has always been a pretty short list but has its loyal followers too, so I don't think it will go away anytime soon.
 

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I'm all for free enterprise. If one company beats out the competition in a free market, then it's the loser's fault for not meeting market demand,
 

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Considering the unavailability of ANY! powder Hodgdon sells they are killing themselves!
All that's been available is Trail Boss and the various flavors of Pyrodex.

Alliant powders are available, if you want 15 or slower!?
 

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Winchester powder doesn't really exist, so there's not much to kill. The St Marks powder factory, now owned by General Dynamics, is probably the biggest military supplier. So, It'll stay in operation. Hodgdon may continue to sell St Marks under the Winchester brand, or they may rebrand it as Hodgdon. But, it'll still be there as long as there's a US military.

:)
 

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Considering the unavailability of ANY! powder Hodgdon sells they are killing themselves!
All that's been available is Trail Boss and the various flavors of Pyrodex.

Alliant powders are available, if you want 15 or slower!?
Come on over to Idaho. we've got pretty good powder supplies in several stores here, you may have to go to all of them to get what you want though.:)
 

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Also plenty on the shelves in Ohio. I think this is a regional distribution issue. Not every place in the country has recovered from shortages yet, but it's getting steadily better.


Darkker,

I think what Hodgdon did was take the old Winchester data and merge it with theirs, subtracting duplicate weight bullet information. I don't think they've done any new load testing of their own, because the Winchester data pretty much matches what was in the last load data Winchester published. The exceptions are for 231 and 296 and 760, where Hodgdon had their own data for HP38, H110, and H414, which they use for both members of each pair.

You can download the last Winchester file in PDF format, here.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That link doesn't work Nick
 

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I think General Dynamics is owned by Olin Corp. Parent Co. of Winchester. I had some Winchester stock about 10-12 yrs ago and Winchester did a "paper" sale to GD and I think I checked it out and found out they both were owned by Olin.They sent me a bunch of complicated paperwork I didn't understand and I didn't want my stock broker to confuse me further so I dumped the stock. So, it seems to me that nothing changed except names on the ownership papers. Typical big business IMHO. I'm not an expert in these things and an expert can tell. Now Hodgdens is selling the brand. Who makes it and who owns the plant? I don't care much, I don't use it. Just curious.
 

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In 1996, the Olin Corp. separated some of their ordnance manufacturing functions and organized them into a separate subsidiary. This new company was called Primex and one of their divisions manufactured small arms ball propellants at their plant in St. Marks, FL.

In late 2000, the General Dynamics Corp. purchased Primex and made it part of their enterprise, so since that time there has been no corporate connection with Olin.

To put company sizes in perspective, using net revenues:

General Dynamics, $29.3 billion

Olin, $1.76 billion

Primex (at time of sale to General Dynamics in 2000), $530 million

General Dynamics is the fifth largest defense contractor in the world, so very much a bigger company than Olin.

Over the years Olin has been very clever about licensing out the use of the Winchester name, which they have never sold. They have sold Winchester product facilities, but never the name. They are content to collect royalties on the continued use of the name without taking any risk.

I wonder why Hodgdon took on the Winchester product line. Hodgdon must pay Olin a royalty to use the Winchester name on the product, yet Hodgdon markets some of the same products under their own name that are the same as the Winchester product. Not long ago, I wrote to Chris Hodgdon, asking him if H414 and W760 were the same powder in different cans. He wrote back telling me that they were the exact same powder. I believe there are other examples of this in the two lines of product. I can only guess that some buyers have a brand loyalty to a certain name and this is partly why Hodgdon continues the Winchester line.
 

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That says it all. I forgot,it was Primex stock I had. Thanks for jogging my memory and the correct info. Just curious, Does GD make the powder and Winchester (using it in their factory ammo) and Hodgden (selling to reloaders) buy it from them? Again, just curious.
 

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Companies are in business, businesses are expected to make money, Hodgdon included. If they can make money selling any powder under any label they will do it. Since they own the WW label it would be silly for them to work against a division of their own business. And Hodgdon didn't get where they are by being silly.
 

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If for some strange reason Hogdon did kill the WIN powders, 2 weeks later I'd figure out that I really needed the win powder for something, that's my luck. I currently don't use them so I am unconcerned, for now.
 
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