I have some Bridger's Best .45 cal. wads and a mold for a 220gr. RN bullet. I would like to try pushing it around or slightly over 2000fps. I use Lee Liquid Alox and will be using a Marlin 1895 CB. I'm trying for a flatter shooting lower recoil .45-70 varmint load. What problems do you guys see with this if any? Thanks, JTT IN NC
Will wads work as gas checks?
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Developing the 2,000 f.p.s. load is within reason but I feel accuracy will suffer..especially with the 220 gr. bullet. A would suggest the minimum weight of 300 cast, swaged and lubed (National Bullet Co.) The wad you mentioned is OK but a superior and much cheaper wad is about a 3/4" square of Polyester fiber (Dacron) snugged down (not packed tight) against the powder. Your really trying to make a varmit gun out a gun designed for knockdown with 405 or 500 gr. bullets. Learning bullet drop for your particular load in a 45/70 and being able to apply it is taxing enough. The 45/70 is not a varmit gun in any load albiet I'm sure many varmits have bit the dust to them.
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What diameter is your 220g RN bullet mold? I've never heard of a .458-.460 so light before is why I ask. If it's a .452" mold, for 45 Auto or light Colt loads, the application of your bullet will be entirely different. If it's a .452" you can have great fun with the bullets in your .45-70 by simply paper patching them! Done that with virtually all the .45 colt bullets we offer, in .45-70, .458 Winchester and .458 Lott over the years with results ranging from exemplary to dismal, but great fun along the way!
Let us know what you're playing with for bullet diameter!
God Bless,
Marshall
Let us know what you're playing with for bullet diameter!
God Bless,
Marshall
Marshall, the mold I'm using is the .456-220-1r Lee mold for the Ruger Old Army. I have been using a Lee .457-405-hp mold with good results so I was hoping the .001 smaller dia. wouldn't hurt to bad. If it will I have a friend in a machine shop that could bore it out a little more. Thanks for the responses guys, JTT IN NC
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Interesting combination.... it'll be interesting what your results reveal. I wouldn't be too optimistic about the outcome with the .456" bullets, especially since you want some pretty high velocities out of these loads.
Opening up the mold is perhaps an option as you mentioned. But perhaps sizing these to .454" then paper patching to .460" might give more gratifying results.
Let us know what you find with your experimentation.
God Bless,
Marshall
Opening up the mold is perhaps an option as you mentioned. But perhaps sizing these to .454" then paper patching to .460" might give more gratifying results.
Let us know what you find with your experimentation.
God Bless,
Marshall
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3,366 Posts
I'll be doing a Tech Note on the subject shortly, and it should help. Also, with just a little looking there are some excellent online resources with info on paper-patched bullets.
Sorry not to be more help right now, but the subject deserves more than a couple of paragraphs in quick response here on the fourm.
I'll be getting the article out sometime late spring!
(.444 Marlin-America's Most Versatile Big Bore, parts IV, V and VI are first however <!--emo&
--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo--> Spring has finally sprung and I can shoot without getting hypothermia!<!--emo&--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo-->
God Bless,
Marshall
Sorry not to be more help right now, but the subject deserves more than a couple of paragraphs in quick response here on the fourm.
I'll be getting the article out sometime late spring!
(.444 Marlin-America's Most Versatile Big Bore, parts IV, V and VI are first however <!--emo&
--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo--> Spring has finally sprung and I can shoot without getting hypothermia!<!--emo&--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo-->God Bless,
Marshall
Old Pete
I've tried the teflon tape on cast bullets. a long time ago. In a land far far away.
Didn't have any problems outside of it taking forever to wrap each bullet. Think I read about doing it in Handloader, or maybe one of the lessor shooting rags, like Gun World.
I half way thought it might be worth investigating some sort of machine to handle that chore. The machine would make the product more uniform and less tedious.
Jim
I've tried the teflon tape on cast bullets. a long time ago. In a land far far away.
Didn't have any problems outside of it taking forever to wrap each bullet. Think I read about doing it in Handloader, or maybe one of the lessor shooting rags, like Gun World.
I half way thought it might be worth investigating some sort of machine to handle that chore. The machine would make the product more uniform and less tedious.
Jim
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2,572 Posts
Marshall,
I shot a lot of .458 dia bullets in my Trapdoor from a borrowed mold;Lyman #457127,which throws a bullet weighing 210 grains.
I also have the Lyman#457130 mold (collar button) which throws a bullet weighing 130 grains.
Look in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Along with those two,are: #457131.285 grains--#457195,225 grains.
Frank
I shot a lot of .458 dia bullets in my Trapdoor from a borrowed mold;Lyman #457127,which throws a bullet weighing 210 grains.
I also have the Lyman#457130 mold (collar button) which throws a bullet weighing 130 grains.
Look in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Along with those two,are: #457131.285 grains--#457195,225 grains.
Frank
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649 Posts
I have a circa 1882 model '73 Winchester in .44 W.C.F. that has an oversized groove diameter of .433". I have found that an .06" thick polyethylene wad under a bullet as small as .427" t will seal the gas behind the bullet and allow the bullet to center in the barrel and give accurate shooting. These results are from using a load that generates less than 15,000 p.s.i. and a velocity of 1,300 f.p.s.
Since your bullet is closer to your bore diameter, I am betting that a .06" poly wad would keep the gas from getting by your bullet, providing that the chamber pressure was not great enough to get past the poly wad. If one wad does not work, try two. I am not familiar with Bridgers best .45 wads. Are they made from polyethylene?
You could also try sizing .45 caliber gas checks in your sizer die (preferably .458 - .459), then start them upside down in the case, then seat and crimp the bullet.
The light .45 bullet has less bearing surface length than it does diameter, which would lead to a rapid deterioration of accuracy as the velocity increases. A harder alloy such as Linotype or heat treated wheelweights would be of benefit. (Also, the bullet diameter would over .001" larger in linotype.)
As Marshall suggested, another option would be to size them down and paper patch them.
Another method to try is to put two thicknesses of aluminum foil between the mold halves, spacing them about .002" apart. This would make for a slightly out of round bullet which would be the proper diameter part way around. You might be surprised how they might work. Use a dipper or drop pour if you do this.
A final option would be to bump up the bullets.
Please let us know the results of your testing.
John
Since your bullet is closer to your bore diameter, I am betting that a .06" poly wad would keep the gas from getting by your bullet, providing that the chamber pressure was not great enough to get past the poly wad. If one wad does not work, try two. I am not familiar with Bridgers best .45 wads. Are they made from polyethylene?
You could also try sizing .45 caliber gas checks in your sizer die (preferably .458 - .459), then start them upside down in the case, then seat and crimp the bullet.
The light .45 bullet has less bearing surface length than it does diameter, which would lead to a rapid deterioration of accuracy as the velocity increases. A harder alloy such as Linotype or heat treated wheelweights would be of benefit. (Also, the bullet diameter would over .001" larger in linotype.)
As Marshall suggested, another option would be to size them down and paper patch them.
Another method to try is to put two thicknesses of aluminum foil between the mold halves, spacing them about .002" apart. This would make for a slightly out of round bullet which would be the proper diameter part way around. You might be surprised how they might work. Use a dipper or drop pour if you do this.
A final option would be to bump up the bullets.
Please let us know the results of your testing.
John
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