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Discussion Starter #1
Well how are everyones 1895s doing? I have completed my set I think. They should be coming back from the gunsmith in a week or so. One in .30-06 and one in .405. They are going to have 1" Pach. Decelorators installed and Express sites(Ashley) Peep sites. Should be kind of like a matched set except for caliber. The -06 will do for everything upto and including moose, and the .405 everything up to and including...well everything! Can't wait for spring caribou this year.
 

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CUB,
Awaiting delivery of mine this week or next. 411 Hawk. I'll post some photos and details when it arrives.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
We will all have to get together and compare the different rifles after their reworks! It will be interesting to compare ballistics, too.
 

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As some of you may remember I inherited an orginial Win. Model 1895 in 30-40 Krag with a Lyman Model 21 peep sight. I missed two deer this year but that was due to human error and not the gun. Need more practice with it. When warmer weather gets here I'll be getting that practice and with any luck will get a deer next season with it. I currently load 47 grs. of IMR 4350 behind a Sierra 180 spitzer with a vel. of about 2400 fps. I haven't had a chance to shot over my chrono but will when I get that warmer weather.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am a big believer in the chrono! It tells the truth. I will be load the hornady and hawk bullets to published velocities. About 2250fps. How do those other wildcats perform?
 

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Being nosey

This past weekend I came across two Winchester 95s at a gun show, at what appeared to be good prices $750.00, each. Both were 30-06.
I'd thought of getting one of these and converting it to 400 Whelen or something similar, maybe that 400 JDJ? The 405 would be good also if the brass was not so difficult to get and expensive.
I had thought to make this rifle a cast bullet gun only.
What are the gunsmiths charging to convert these 95s to the 40 caliber?

Jim
 

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After learning that Winchester wouldn't sell me a new .405 WCF barrel I got two quotes for reboring my Browning 1895 to .35 WCF. Cutrifle.com out of Arizona quoted me $265 with an 8-10 month wait. Z-hat quoted around $475 with the same waiting period, which included $50 for a takeoff barrel. I may try to minimize my pain by purchasing a takeoff from Z-hat and having it shipped to the Cut Rifle shop.

Trey
 

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arky,
To convert to a 40, the 270 and 30 caliber 1895's need to be rebarreled (or so I'm told). Anything over a 35 caliber and there just isn't enough barrel there. I would think any good gunsmith could do the rebarrel job for you, so labor rates would vary. Douglas Premium barrels are running about $250-300 these days, I think. I'm not sure what the other Douglas barrels are running or other brands. I think Shilen, Hart, Kreiger, Lilja, etc... are quite a bit more expensive. If you rebarrel, you have the sight issue to deal with also. Cutting the barrel down and recrowning, adding sights, adding a sling swivel (if desired), etc... If you have a gunsmith you trust to rebarrel and chamber for whatever you are looking for, ask him to give you a quote. Also, if you are looking at a 40/06, check the 400 Brown-Whelen and 411 Hawk. Both are improved versions of the 400 Whelen. The improved versions allow more insurance headspacing and offer a little better performance, though not sure how much is needed.

$795 seems a bit high to me. If you search on GunBroker or GunsAmerica, you can find NIB 270's and 30/06's for a little less. I picked up a NIB 270 for $400 last year.

For what it is worth.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't think the .405 brass is hard to get or expensive with Hornady making it now is it? Of course compared to .30-06 it probably is. But you are thinking of rebarreling to a wildcat. Now thats going to be hard. I can walk into most of my stores up here and nuy .405 Hornady factory loads for $27-$37. Sure can't buy any .411 Hawk ammo. You have to custom make that at home. Anyway, sure would be fun to do. I plan on buying another 100 rounds of loaded stuff and probable 500 brass cases from Hornady. It runs around $30 per box of 50. Thats pretty high I guess compared to -06. Oh well, got to pay to play!
 

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CUB is right about that. The dies are pretty expensive too. Zeglin recommends using unformed /06 cylinder brass and necking down. It can be done by expanding 30/06 or 35 Whelen brass, but is just as easy to neck down and trim cyclinder stuff. Also, if you travel outside the U.S. some places require you have ammunition headstamped for the rifle you are carrying. That would preclude using 35 Whelen or 30/06 brass. Quality cartridge is supplying cyclinder brass with proper headstamp for the 411. Just another issue to deal with. As far as performance, I can't say what the 411 Hawk or 400 BW will deliver as I haven't chrono'ed any yet (I don't have the rifle yet, either), but there have been a few tests run by Zeglin (using 26 and 27" barrels, mind you) and John Kronfeld chrono'ed the 400 BW and published his findings. I have that info if you are interested in a copy. The article by Kronfeld is in Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges by Wolfe Publishing. I seem to have misplaced my copy at the moment, but can hunt it down for you, if you are interested.

The thing is, do you want a wildcat, do you need the extra performance? If not, the 405 may be a better way to go, if you can find one. If not, a rebarrel job to the 35 Whelen or 358 Hawk might easier and less expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Heck, I don't know why you would change from a .30-40 or .30-06 anyway. Unless just for the fun of it. I don't think a deer or elk would be any more impressed at open sight ranges. Thats one reason I went for the matching set, one .30-06 and one in .405. The -06 is for everything and the .405 for everything only with a bigger bullet! I just wanted a pair for the nostaglia feeling of hunting with T.R.s gun! And the .405 may have an edge on the big browns and grizzlies and moose up here. Oh, and I plan on doing a trip to Africa with those two. An 1895 safari! Can't wait for that lion and buffalo.
 

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FA18CUB
I've got a Winchester model 1886 in 45-70 and a Siamese Mauser in 45-70. I'm sort of hooked on large lumbering calibers, relative to the 30-06. Plus I have a Mark X in 375 Whelen that I have shot nothing but cast bullets in.
I'd thought that a 40 caliber lever throwing 350 grain cast bullets at 2500 FPS would just about be the ultimate gong basher and maybe do well in Africa.
The guys over at the Accurate Reloading site have done a fair job in convincing me that a 445 grain 45 caliber cast bullet moving at 1500 to 1800 FPS, in a lever action, is only fit for shooting the odd field mouse or tame urban cotton tail, unless it's the rutting season.
I enjoy the testing for and the making of the wild cat round. This is based on my experience with the 375 Whelen.
Jim
 

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350 grain at 2500 fps, seems a little fast to me, especially in a 1895. Even Z-hat (using a 26" barrel) only shows 2366 fps using the Swift A Frame. That is using 61 grains of 4064, with pressures probably getting a touch hot, I would suspect, for the 1895. I can't exactly remember what Kronfeld was getting in his Brown-Whelen M77 bolt action, but as I recall, his was a bit more ambitious. Though he was using a front locking bolt gun.

Looking at the 325 grain North Fork, it took 63 grains of 4064 and a 25" barrel at 57,000 psi to get just over 2400 fps.

Those are on Z-hat's website, for what it's worth.

Be careful.
 

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You are most likely correct

alyeska338
I was relying on memory,which is always dangerous.
Which of the two cases, the 30-06 or the 444 Marlin, would have the most case capisity necked to 40 caliber bullet?
Jim
 

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I'm not sure, I don't have any of the JDJ case specs. I did look into this at one time, but believe it was after having purchased the 270 and I didn't want to go to the added expense required to modify the bolt. If memory serves me right (here we go relying on memory - BEWARE), I believe the Hawk version had the greater case capacity and generated less pressure, though I can't state that positively. You could email or call Larry Jones, at SSK Industries and get those specs. I know he did develop his cartridges for use in 14-15" barreled Encores.

Here's SSK's website. http://www.sskindustries.com/cartridges.html
It would be interesting to know what you find out.
 

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arkypete,
Another approach would be to rebarrel a 300 Win Mag Browning BLR to a 416 Taylor. I would suppose this could be done, though don't know of anyone that has tried it.
 

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Hey Cub,
You mentioned that you were going to take your pair of 1895's to Africa, just wanted to ask if you would post something on your plans in the Africa hunting section. Please :D .

My one lone post is getting kinda lonely. Maybe where you are going, what the intended quarry will be, any thoughts you have on it.
 

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The Marlin 450 guidegun 1895M shooting a 350 gr Interlock Hornady using H4198 at 50gr max load CCI Mag Primers, Heavy crimp, 2180 fps, If you use the Barns 250gr using WW296 can't remember the load off hand but it was cruising around 2450 fps now thats moving, also using Varget behind a 405 gr bullet at 57gr max load compressed a nice moderate load around 1800 fps and shot very good also, All these loads where with in a one inch groups at 50 yards benchrested, I found these loads in Guns&Ammo April 2002, they worked well for me;) Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You guys just like to tinker! :) All these funky wildcats still didn't down any lions in Africa with T.R.! I found that hawk makes a 325gr .405 bullet (.411) with an extra heavy .050 jacket. Should be just the ticket for the biggest of game. I won't be doing Africa for YEARS. Even though my rifles will be ready next week! I just keep dreaming. I am going to hunt Alaska with them. Hee Hee - It's a little closer to home. (Like out the back door!)
 
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