[drone]

Went onto reddotmate.com and bought a mounting plate for a reflex sight that fits on a drilled and tapped dovetail that goes where the rear sight mounts. $18.99 including shipping from China, got it inside a week, it is superb. Now all I have to do is buy the sight. I fancy a vortex viper anyone on here used them and, if so, what are they like.
Many thanks in advance.

 

[drone]

Please could the mods change the title from ite to sight

Done.

 

[JBelk]

Be sure what-ever sight is VERY, VERY light weight. With only the dovetail to hold it, it wont hold a heavy one for long.

 

[drone]

JB, got it looking at one ounce ones.

 

[JBelk]

That should do it. "Vortex" brings visions of tractor fuel funnel scopes to us fossils.

 

[drone]

Must be a local thing, I'd never heard of Vortex until I started searching red dots.

 

[nsb]

I put one of these on Win/Miroku 1886 45-70. Worked like a charm. No problems at all.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Preview: Turnbull Restoration Red Dot Mounts

Best known for its museum-quality firearm finishes, Turnbull Restoration has developed three red-dot mounts that allow owners of classic Winchester lever-action rifles to reap the benefits of fast target acquisition using Docter-pattern MRDs.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Darkker]

Must be a local thing, I'd never heard of Vortex until I started searching red dots.

Interesting.
Richard from Sharp Shooting UK has been reviewing them (Vortex) for quite a while now. May be just a case of import duties, and numbers of shooters?🤷

 

[drone]

Darkker, probably down to pricing, in the uk most american equipment sells for at least the same number of £ as it does for $ in the states, so if you had the choice between a £1500 zeiss or a £1500 american scope with a cringeworthy name which would you choose?
TBH, I took notice of Vortex when I saw the lifetime warranty ( don't know why, I'm nearly 80) and ignored the name and looked at the features which are appealing to me, especially the amount of windage and elevation adjustment that's available.

 

[Model 52]

Turnbull Restorations sells a mount for Noblex foot print dot sights like the Burris Fast Fire 2, 3, and 4, the Vortex Venom and Viper, etc. It’s not cheap, but it’s well made and works well.

It uses a dove tail filler that the mount then screws to, and the mount itself conforms to the barrel profile on round barrel Model 94 and Model 92 rifles.
Red Dot Mount for Model 94 and 1892 | Use with Vortex and Burris Sights

 

[crooked creek]

Maybe it's just me, but some things you just don't do, like putting a reflex sight on a Turnbull 'restoration' or ketchup on a ribeye steak! Maybe I'll change my view once I see a 'restored' turn of the twentieth century reflex or red dot sight. That sight on that beautiful color cased receiver is just plain ugly.

 

[nsb]

There’s form and there’s function. Take your pick. I meet people all the time who worry about important things like “do my boots match my sling”, or “I can’t wear mixed camouflage, it all has to match”. Just depends why you’re out there.

 

[crooked creek]

There’s form and there’s function. Take your pick. I meet people all the time who worry about important things like “do my boots match my sling”, or “I can’t wear mixed camouflage, it all has to match”. Just depends why you’re out there.

There are so many things you just can't do without in todays world, I'm shocked that I was even able to hunt, with gun or bow, or go fishing when I was in my 20's. Getting to my fishing 'honey hole' was either by wading or walking the bank or by my dad's 14' semi-vee with a 10 horse Merc. at 15 MPH, not a $45K 225 HP 80 MPH bass boat.
Next thing you know they will come out with ventilated hand guards and synthetic 'tactical' stocks for 30-30 lever actions, OH, wait....!!
I'd rather leave the function to the engineers first, and let the marketing folks follow with a decent (reasonable) form that is needed, wanted, and sellable (the name Edsel comes to mind).
I'd have no problem putting a red dot on my 1990 vintage 25-35 Model 94 Trails End, but a Turnbull restoration of an old classic? I guess, as the saying goes 'It's your money!'.
As I think about it, maybe I'll just get this D&T for a Leupold LER....NOT!:

 

[drone]

I reckon that miroku 1886 was a turn of the 20th century gun, be that as it may what we all did when we were 20 don't come as easy when we reach the other end of our mortal spell on earth and anything one can do to have another day's enjoyment has to be a good thing.
To quote the commander of the 101st Airborne in Bastogne, "Nuts" to you in the anti-happy police.

 

[Model 52]

Maybe it's just me, but some things you just don't do, like putting a reflex sight on a Turnbull 'restoration' or ketchup on a ribeye steak! Maybe I'll change my view once I see a 'restored' turn of the twentieth century reflex or red dot sight. That sight on that beautiful color cased receiver is just plain ugly.

Personally, I don’t see any advantage in using a dot sight rather than a tang sight, and in fact the tang sight offers several advantages over a dot sight.

But I also appreciate that Turnbull makes a mount that uses the rear sight dove tail so that those folks who feel the need for a dot sight don’t do something stupid like drilling and tapping a vintage Winchester for some sort of modern sight.

 

[crooked creek]

Just depends why you’re out there.

You just never know when there might be a GQ (or Vogue, for that matter) photographer lurking behind a bush!

 

[nsb]

Personally, I don’t see any advantage in using a dot sight rather than a tang sight, and in fact the tang sight offers several advantages over a dot sight.

But I also appreciate that Turnbull makes a mount that uses the rear sight dove tail so that those folks who feel the need for a dot sight don’t do something stupid like drilling and tapping a vintage Winchester for some sort of modern sight.

My Turnbull Win/Miroku came D&T for a receiver (Turnbull) mount for the red dot. So, nothing happened to the gun there. The advantage of the red dot is for hunting, not target shooting. It’s much easier to see it in dim light. I have Sharps rifles that have aperture sights and they work great for target if you’re shooting long distances. I’ve also had them on my 1885 High Wall. One size doesn’t fit all. Woods hunting with the 1886 and a red dot has proven advantageous and the red dot will shoot as good a group(s) as the gun is capable of even compared to a scope.
These groups were fired at a measured 114 yards, my camp deck to the back stop. Burris FF3.

 

[Model 52]

My Turnbull Win/Miroku came D&T for a receiver (Turnbull) mount for the red dot. So, nothing happened to the gun there. The advantage of the red dot is for hunting, not target shooting. It’s much easier to see it in dim light. I have Sharps rifles that have aperture sights and they work great for target if you’re shooting long distances. I’ve also had them on my 1885 High Wall. One size doesn’t fit all. Woods hunting with the 1886 and a red dot has proven advantageous and the red dot will shoot as good a group(s) as the gun is capable of even compared to a scope.
These groups were fired at a measured 114 yards, my camp deck to the back stop. Burris FF3.

Oddly enough I’m not speaking from ignorance or even informed dislike of a dot sight. They have theit place and I have a few of them on various firearms like my MP5;

and my Uzi;

But to be honest that’s mostly because their receiver peep sights are fairly poor, they don’t make a tang sight for them, and a larger reflex sight starts to impair the handling.

On a lever gun, a dot sight is not as detrimental to handling as a scope but I still prefer the tang sight.

Accuracy wise, I consistently shot 1 MOA slow prone sling supported groups with the receiver sights on my M1A Supermatch and with the AR-15 service match rifle that I subsequently shot. I could not have gotten that accuracy with a dot sight and unfortunately most of them seem to have 2 MOA, or 4 MOA dots that compromise accuracy from the start.

My 1926 Model 94 26” rifle has a vintage tang sight in it with a nifty aperture that lets you use a larger aperture for low light conditions;

Or flip to a smaller aperture better suited to bright light conditions.

I also have a different style vintage Lyman tang sight on one of my other pre 64 Winchesters that uses apertures that screw in to the sight elevator. In this case I‘m using a Merit ”Hunter” adjustable aperture that lets me select 11 different settings for aperture diameter to match the lighting conditions.

I can also remove the aperture entirely and use the hole in the sight elevator as a “ghost ring“ aperture. If I have enough light to see the target (moonlight is usually enough) I can see the front sight in the center of the ghost ring aperture - without having the dot potentially wash out the target and without having to adjust the brightness of a dot.

It also works really well on fast movers at short range.

So, it’s not that I don’t like a decent red dot sight (one that doesn’t have a lot of parallax, which by the way all tang sights and aperture sights are 100% parallax free), it just that I seriously don’t see any advantage to one over a good tang or receiver sight when there is one available for the application.

With the exception of a Winchester 94 Classic that has a Williams receiver sight, all of my center fire lever guns have tang sights. About half of them have vintage Marbles or Lyman sights, while the other half have the current Marbles or Lyman tang sights. All but two of my rimfire lever guns also have tang sights. One of those exceptions has a Skinner receiver sight and the other has a 2-7x32 scope.

 

[drone]

Here is the adaptor for the red dot fitted to the barrel dovetail, not very intrusive, much less than the carbuncle which is the williams peep sight.
Though I expect the Winchester police will have something deleterious to say about it.

The vortex sight should arrive tomorrow. Don't know whether I should do a poll to see if the idea of an image is popular or not .

 

[drone]

Here and fitted, quite pleased but disappointed to find I have astigmatism, never mind an oblong red dot will have to do.