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Winchester 94 scope mount

1588 Views 12 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  drone
Hello! I am planning to buy a Winchester 94 from early 80s, the seller says it is a AE.

I have som questions regarding mounting a scope on it.

My plan was to have as low as possible bases installed that does not cover the iron sights, and then mount a scope with some quick release rings (example leupold qrw) on the bases. All this so I can quickly change between the iron sights and the scope.

Does anyone know if there are any bases available that are low enough and dont cover the iron sights completely? Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance!

I will provide some pictures of the reciever if that helps.

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Have you considered see-through bases?
How about Tip off bases?
I tried several different bases but then realized I was just making excuses and then settled on rifles that are without iron sights and a good scope and practice.
Never regretted this decision.
Good luck in your research.
Lots of companies make scope mounts for the Model 94AE. I am not aware of any of them that are low enough to see over with the barrel mounted iron sights.

There are a couple companies that sell see through mounts with integrated rings where you look under the scope. They put the scope even higher, on a rifle where the stock was never intended to accommodate even a low mounted scope.

Winchester sold a lot of AEs to shooters who thought they needed a scope on a lever gun. But in practice it has significant downsides:

- any scope is mounted too high for a decent cheek weld, so parallax errors become a big issue unless you keep magnification low. A 2-7x33 is as large as I’d even think about going.

- even with a small scope, mounting a scope ruins the balance and handling of the rifle.

- since you can no longer wrap your hand around the receiver you end up adding sling swivel and a sling, which adds more weight and further degrades the handling.

——

Instead, I suggest three alternatives:

1) Have it drilled and tapped for a tang sight. It allows for excellent accuracy and if your issue is age related near focus and seeing the rear sight or focusing on the front sight, a tang sight with its small aperture close to your eye will solve that problem for you.

Marbles make a good elevation and windage adjustable tang sight. Its not as elegant and refined as a vintage Marbles sight or a vintage Lyman 1A sight, but it’s still a very good sight.




2) Williams makes a receiver sight for the later pre 64 Model 94s and the 1964-1982 pre AE Model 94. All of these are pre 64, but only the newest of them (1956) has factory drilled and tapped holes for the receiver sight. The other two are 1950 models prior to Winchester adding those holes a few years later. Winchester unfortunately stopped drilling and tapping those holes on the Model 94AE, apparently believing their own marketing drivel that everyone wanted a scope.



This is the target version of the Williams sight (as I use it for longer ranged plate shooting), but the make a hunter model with screws rather than finger adjustable knobs.



The receiver sight will give you about 90% of the focus enhancing advantages of a tang sight.

3) Turnbull makes a mount for red dots sights like the Burris Fast Fire that sits in the dove tail for the barrel mounted sight.

How to Mount a Burris FastFire Red Dot Sight to Your Winchester 94

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——-

Now…if your response is “but I want magnification because….”, rethink it.

The .30-30 is a 200-250 yard cartridge and while the pre-64 rifles and carbines are 1.5 to 2 MOA in that cartridge, the Model 94 AE is generally a 3-4 MOA carbine where its not going to be used on small game, varmints or predators beyond 50-100 yards but is still minute of deer at 200-250 yards. None of those applications require a scope.

All of the alternatives suggested address any age related accommodation issues by either increasing the depth of field for your eye so it can focus on the front sigh, while eliminating the need to see the rear sight, or eliminate to use the sights entirely.

If the concern is durability in the field, alternatives 1 and 2 are not going to break in the field. Number three might but I have Burris Fast Fire III sights on both an Uzi and an MP5 and I have not managed to break one yet. Burris includes a protective see through cover with them.
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I have two M94AEs, a 30-30 and a Trapper .44 mag. I'm doubting that you will find a standard base system that allows for also using the irons with QD rings. It appears that do to the higher front tapped portion of the receiver, most any standard type base is going to block the rear sight. There are also Weaver bases that are relatively inexpensive (under $10) that might be low enough to allow for Weaver type QD rings (I like Warnes) that could be low enough. Might be worth the $$ to buy the bases only to check that prior to buying rings to utilize.

Both mine wear Standard windage/turn-in bases.
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I have a Winchester 94 with a small Williams peep sight. The whole joy of the 94 is that it is a joy to carry and easy to shoot. Putting a scope on it is a travesty. That is what Marlins are for.
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@martlin , I went back to get a link to give you for the proper Weaver bases and saw this in the reviews:

**"Reviewed in the United States on March 12, 2019
Verified Purchase
Fit Winchester model 94 angle eject.
Will block sights."
I have a Winchester 94 with a small Williams peep sight. The whole joy of the 94 is that it is a joy to carry and easy to shoot. Putting a scope on it is a travesty. That is what Marlins are for.
Or, maybe what folks have to do because of their vision. Or, even what folks do knowing that a quality scope will greatly improve low light performance.
I don't believe you will find a scope mount that allows the use of open sights. Peep sights are another option, as are tang sights.
I have a Winchester 94 with a small Williams peep sight. The whole joy of the 94 is that it is a joy to carry and easy to shoot. Putting a scope on it is a travesty. That is what Marlins are for.
Love it.... and yes I have scopes on all my Marlins. Practically required for shooting pigs 15 minutes after deer hunting is over ;)

On my Marlins, trimming a bit off the end of the Weaver rail lets a Williams peep sight tuck in under the scope, for backup. Can't use it with the scope on the rifle, but easy enough to take off the scope if needed. That gets the base down to 3 screws holding it to the gun, instead of 4, but haven't had a problem with bases coming loose.
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I have a Winchester 94 with a small Williams peep sight. The whole joy of the 94 is that it is a joy to carry and easy to shoot. Putting a scope on it is a travesty. That is what Marlins are for.
[/QUOTE

Your pretty close. Instead of Travesty I might have said choice. So as not offend those with. :)
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The complicated and error prone efforts required to scope a 94 are not worth it. The qualities that make it a good hunting tool will be ruined, or at least compromised, and the gun will no longer have the qualities that make people love it for short range hunting. I installed a receiver sight as the only modification to mine, and thought it worked very well. My advice is don't try so hard to make it something it was never intended to be. Like the old joke about travel directions, "You can't get there from here; you have to start from somewhere else."
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@martlin , I went back to get a link to give you for the proper Weaver bases and saw this in the reviews:

**"Reviewed in the United States on March 12, 2019
Verified Purchase
Fit Winchester model 94 angle eject.
Will block sights."


Or, maybe what folks have to do because of their vision. Or, even what folks do knowing that a quality scope will greatly improve low light performance.
Then they should get a Marlin.
Lots of companies make scope mounts for the Model 94AE. I am not aware of any of them that are low enough to see over with the barrel mounted iron sights.

There are a couple companies that sell see through mounts with integrated rings where you look under the scope. They put the scope even higher, on a rifle where the stock was never intended to accommodate even a low mounted scope.

Winchester sold a lot of AEs to shooters who thought they needed a scope on a lever gun. But in practice it has significant downsides:

- any scope is mounted too high for a decent cheek weld, so parallax errors become a big issue unless you keep magnification low. A 2-7x33 is as large as I’d even think about going.

- even with a small scope, mounting a scope ruins the balance and handling of the rifle.

- since you can no longer wrap your hand around the receiver you end up adding sling swivel and a sling, which adds more weight and further degrades the handling.

——

Instead, I suggest three alternatives:

1) Have it drilled and tapped for a tang sight. It allows for excellent accuracy and if your issue is age related near focus and seeing the rear sight or focusing on the front sight, a tang sight with its small aperture close to your eye will solve that problem for you.

Marbles make a good elevation and windage adjustable tang sight. Its not as elegant and refined as a vintage Marbles sight or a vintage Lyman 1A sight, but it’s still a very good sight.




2) Williams makes a receiver sight for the later pre 64 Model 94s and the 1964-1982 pre AE Model 94. All of these are pre 64, but only the newest of them (1956) has factory drilled and tapped holes for the receiver sight. The other two are 1950 models prior to Winchester adding those holes a few years later. Winchester unfortunately stopped drilling and tapping those holes on the Model 94AE, apparently believing their own marketing drivel that everyone wanted a scope.



This is the target version of the Williams sight (as I use it for longer ranged plate shooting), but the make a hunter model with screws rather than finger adjustable knobs.



The receiver sight will give you about 90% of the focus enhancing advantages of a tang sight.

3) Turnbull makes a mount for red dots sights like the Burris Fast Fire that sits in the dove tail for the barrel mounted sight.

How to Mount a Burris FastFire Red Dot Sight to Your Winchester 94

View attachment 107294

——-

Now…if your response is “but I want magnification because….”, rethink it.

The .30-30 is a 200-250 yard cartridge and while the pre-64 rifles and carbines are 1.5 to 2 MOA in that cartridge, the Model 94 AE is generally a 3-4 MOA carbine where its not going to be used on small game, varmints or predators beyond 50-100 yards but is still minute of deer at 200-250 yards. None of those applications require a scope.

All of the alternatives suggested address any age related accommodation issues by either increasing the depth of field for your eye so it can focus on the front sigh, while eliminating the need to see the rear sight, or eliminate to use the sights entirely.

If the concern is durability in the field, alternatives 1 and 2 are not going to break in the field. Number three might but I have Burris Fast Fire III sights on both an Uzi and an MP5 and I have not managed to break one yet. Burris includes a protective see through cover with them.
That red dot sight is the only optical sight that makes sense on a 94. I wouldn't do it, but you do you.
And by the way, I'm right-eye dominant and I've got black spots and cataracts in my right eye and I can still shoot out to 150 yards confidently with the 94. It's not like target shooting.
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