Shooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've seen a lot of posts about the Marlins and Winchester's here, but have not seen reference to the 1895 Winchester or Browning as it is.  We've seen several posts about 30/06, 270, 30/40 Krag and such, but nobody has made mention of these rifles.  Looking on some of the For Sale web sites, there seems to be quite a few of them kicking around for a decent price.  Looks like one of these rebarreled to 338/06, 35 Whelen or 375/06 would be a heck of a rifle.  I've never owned one, but have handled a few, and while they aren't the most well balanced rifle, they are on par with a lot of other rifles out there.  Just curious.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
554 Posts
They're neat, but an awkward "transition" design - modern long range cartridges in a gun most practical for woods work (it's tough to mount a scope or a decent peep on).

The .405 or 30-40 as close-in big stuff or woods rifle with a peep seems to be the best fit between cartridge and rifle(?).
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the input Charlie.  Have you ever shot one?  Does anybody know what accuracy has been like with these rifles?  I'm not talking 1/4" groups but 1.5 MOA sure would be nice.  Hunting accuracy is all I'm worried about.  The more I think about these, the more interest I have in them.  Wasn't this one of Teddy Roosevelt's favorite rifles?  I think he liked the 405 in the 1895.  I could be wrong.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
554 Posts
Nope.  Just those I've handled and read about.  Your situation is probably the best use...  a .405 as a big bear gun...  Bully!

Z
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
405 would be pretty sweet.  I have my heart set on an 06 wildcat though, I think.  338/06 or 375/06 or Col Whelen's 35.  Don't want to buy into a black hole though.  I understand the recoil in the 405 in these rifles is pretty ferocious.  I shoot 338's alot, but don't want to get beat up for no good reason.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
554 Posts
Hmmm.  You know anything about the .400 Whelen?  I think it's a straight 06 case...  Sounds appealing, if so.

Z
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I don't know anything about it other than have read an article or two.  Yeah that does sound good too.  You know if you bought all these for me, I wouldn't have to make all these hard decisions. ;-)

I want to find out what kind of shooters these rifles are and what their idiosyncrises(?) are.  The butt of the stock seems mighty low, I bet those 40 calibers really thump.  Don't need one if I'm not going to hunt with it.  Seems that they are quite a bit heavier than a convential levergun.  I like the looks of them because they are different and have the ability to handle something like a 06 wildcat.  What do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Guys like Scovill have played some neat games with rechambering and reboring to the various Hawk / Scovill cartridges. A person has to remember that these are rear lockers although they are strong. A lot of the old ones set back quite a bit especially the 30-06 chambering.  I'm not sure why anyone would want one chambered in a caliber that is best suited to a front locker although they are pretty fast for second shots. I used them to hunt in 30-40, 303 Brit, 35 Win and for a limited time a 405.  For my money the 35 was a gem. Not quite a Whelen but plenty adequate for deer, moose, elk, and even grizzly with a bit of care on the shooters part. The day they reproduce them in 35 I'll have my order in at the local dealer. Wish I'd kept the one I was given by an old timer at home. He thought I might get in trouble hunting grizzly with my 30-30.
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks BC.
Do you think the action is a little weak for the 06 wildcats?  I've never shot one and there's this old boy up here that has one in an 06 that he wants to get rid of.  He lives about a good 4 hours drive north of my neck of the woods, so I really hate to go up there and come home empty handed.  The one he has is NIB, never shot and won't let me shoot it, less I buy it.  I don't want to buy it if I can't shoot it first...Well, you know how it goes.  What was your overall impression of the rifle, function, accuracy potential, strength, carry-ability?  By the way, it's a Browning (not the original Winchester) and is a Grade II.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Alyeska -
    I have a recent production Winchester (Miroku) Model 1895.  It started life as a .270 Winchester, but I had it rebored & rechambered to .35 Whelen.  It is accurate, and the recoil is certainly there, but not any great problem.  The Winchester 1895 is an underrated rifle, in my view.  The punishing recoil that you read about is a function of the old curved buttplate.  The shotgun style buttplate (used on the reproductions) helps enormously.  These new ones also have better steels, although the action design is the same.  The reproductions - Browning or Winchester; both by Miroku - will hold .30-06 pressure and, hence, .35 Whelen pressure as well.  The .30-06 chambering is great.  If you convert to .35 Whelen, sacrifice a .270.  Who needs a long range cartridge in a rifle that really can't be easily scoped?  The case is essentially the same, and the conversion works well.  My rifle is excellent for woods hunting, and I like it a lot.  Good luck to you!
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks redcoat.
I'm really leaning heavily toward a 338/06 if pressure levels remain the same.  I'm not sure about that, I'll need a little more research.  Also considering any of the other 06 variants including that 400 Whelen, but doubt it.  A nice mid range moose gun would work for me.  I already have a 338 Mag (just sold a couple of others) so I have plenty of bullets and weights to play around with.  Thanks for letting me know.  I'll give the old boy a call, we'll see...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Alyeska: As stated they are not a weak action. However even the Shultz & Larsen rear locking bolt action has been seen to set back after extended use and /or overambitious loading. Even setback can be compensated for in loading technique. Used within reason it (a /95) would last a lifetime even in a wildcat. The rifle itself does not carry as easy in the hand due to the magazine as a /94 or /86.  Being a top ejector it does not lend itself to scope mounting except with a Scout style mounting.  All that I used functioned very well and feeding was perfect. There was a bit of a trick to loading them correctly. I guess I just like my old-timey rifles to have old-timey chamberings. Current action and barrel steels used are very strong. besto.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
554 Posts
It's a 200yd gun because of its sights (a "scout scope" on a 1895 would be unattractive and perhaps out of place), but it can handle modern loads.  

So, it's a natural dark woods moose, elk, bear gun.  With that reasoning, the 338-06 is a very sound idea.  (But, I really want you to build the .400 Whelen and tell me how it works out.)

The .270 Browning repros I've seen on the market have been a little cheaper than the other cals, so they would make a "better" rechambering choice.
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yeah, I'm not an overzealous handloader.  I wouldn't push it too hard, I just ain't that kind of guy.  I wouldn't try to make 338 Win Mag out of it.  That just ain't right.  No scope, that wouldn't be right either, I'll put a peep and maybe even a tang on it.  You guys definitely have me convinced.  Soon as the old boy is off work today, I'll give him a holler.  Thanks.  Any other comments anybody wants to add, please do, I'd love to hear them.  Charlie - I don't about that 400, I'm still considering it, but I just don't know.  Make a heck of moose round wouldn't it?  Why don't you build one and let me know how it works? <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
I've had my win. repo in 30/06 for several years. I could not stand the cheesy sights that came on my rifle. I had my gunsmith install a williams foolproof peep and a custom post on the front. I use hornady 165 bt's all the time. I can get 1.5-2" from the bench most of the time.I love my rifle!!! Have and old friend that has an original in 30/40 krag. Ben trying to buy it for years with no luck(yet).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Alyeska;

There was an article in Rifle magazine on the new release of the .405 in the '95, which indicated that the rifle was very well made and accurate.  It also confirmed the notation that the shotgun buttplate reduce the apparent recoil significantly.  I have seen and handled a new '95 that was rebarreled to .35 Whelan.  It was an impressive handling rifle, considering the magazine location.

I have seen several listed on the internet for about $500 in grade I in various calibers, and thought about one for a while, but will wait for a used .405 in the future.

Best of luck.

dclark
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Attention!!
Never procrastinate to buy a firearm that you really want.  If it keeps you up at night thinking about it, it does the same thing to someone else.  The grade II I was looking at (NIB) was less than the same price I've seen for several grade I's.  It is gone.  Someone else now owns MY rifle.  No, I wasn't especially found of the Grade II, but figured it was a nice price and cheaper than any other 1895 I had seen, so why not?  I'm an idiot.  I could just see that big bull moose falling to that rifle come September.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TX Rap Scallion

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Alyeska -
     Sorry to hear that the rifle you were considering "got away."  You might now want to consider other, related options.  In one of his posts, BCstocker mentioned the .35 Winchester and what a great cartridge he thought it was.  I emphatically agree!  Long ago, Elmer Keith wrote that the .35 Winchester was the least powerful cartridge that he considered genuinely adequate for an all-round rifle that would serve even on North America's dangerous game.  The .35 Winchester is based on the .30-40 case (necked up and shoulder moved forward) and, like many .30-40 developments, constituted a very well-balanced load.  It sends out a 250 grain bullet (which, in the 1895 action, can be of either spitzer or round-nose shape) at @2200 fps.  The .35 Whelen sends the same 250 grain bullet at @ 2400 fps.  (I am comparing factory load to factory load; handloads can vary slightly, but the factory ballistics represent good, balanced loads with fine accuracy potential.)  I have a Winchester 1895 in .35 Winchester made in 1903, with good bore, giving good accuracy.  The Lyman 21 (or the Lyman 38) receiver sight - factory installed on many 1895's - helps greatly with accuracy, while preserving the classic look.  Penetration is excellent in the .35 Winchester; I see relatively little difference from the .35 Whelen in actual effect on game.  The .35 Whelen is, of course, a bit better - more powerful, flatter shooting, stretches ranges a bit - but you pay for that slight edge with significantly greater recoil.  The .35 Winchester recoils significantly less (particularly with a shotgun butt) and is pleasant to shoot.  Old Western Scrounger and Kynoch both offer factory ammo.  I use the OWS, which is loaded with Bertram brass and (I believe) the excellent Hornady 250 grain .358 roundnose.  The OWS ammo is pricey, but will give one a baseline comparison for case expansion in working up loads.  It is excellent ammo, very consistent, and gives good performance on game.  The .35 Winchester is more than you need for deer/black bear, but does not mangle them.  If you have lost your Grade II (High Grade?) 1895, perhaps you might want to consider an original 1895 in .35 Winchester.  Merz Firearms and other vintage Winchester dealers list them.  I know you are leaning to .338-06, but I suspect that, after purchasing an 1895 repro and then rechambering and reboring/rebarreling to .35 Whelen or .338-06 or whatever, you are close to the dollar figure for an orginal .35 Winchester.  Be sure to check condition and headspace on an original.  The .35 Winchester is not a high pressure round, so you would not find the headspace problems that some of the .30-03 and .30-06 originals exhibit.  I have no direct experience with the .400 Whelen, but I would worry about insufficient cartridge shoulder to prevent headspace problems; chamber work would have to be meticulously precise, and, even then, the Model 1895, as other posters have rightly pointed out, is a rear-locker - a strong rear-locker, but a rear locker nonetheless.  Some old writers considered the Model 1895 a 44,000 psi rifle maximum.  I would be very cautious.  In my experience, however, once you get used to carrying the 1895, it is possible to get the knack of hooking a finger around the front of the box magazine and carrying the rifle in better balance than you might have heard or experienced yourself on the first few goes.  Also, remember that the central box magazine means that the balance point of the rifle - unlike, say, an 1886 - changes relatively little as the magazine is progressively emptied.  Sorry for the long post.  Don't give up on your 1895 dream; it's a good one.  All the best to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
i also have a 1903 35 win.  these guns are heavy but other than that they handle well.  just as a previous poster said, index finger in front of the box.  i also have a mod 71.  componets for the 35 cal are easier to find but the 71 does have the handling edge.  if you're going to rebarrel  a new 95, consider that the 35 whelen can be purchased must more cheaply off the shelf(or mail-order) than the 35 win. can
 

·
Beartooth Regular
Joined
·
5,218 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Hey thanks guys.  Great info!!!  I won't give up on the 1895, but tell you the truth, the rifle I was looking at was really cheap.  Don't think I can find another one at that price.  I know I won't find a '71.  If I happen upon another 1895 or '71, I won't make the same mistake twice, I can guarantee you that.  I'm still interested in everything you have said, and if you have anything to add, please do.  Right now I'm looking through the couch cushions trying to find the extra penny's it'll take to buy one at the real price.  What a boneheaded thing to do, please don't make my mistake fella's, if you want it and have the money for it, get it now.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top