Winchester Model 1903 and Model 63--

3046 Views 69 Replies 5 Participants Last post by JBelk, 2 mo ago

JBelk

Discussion Starter · 6 mo ago (Edited)

I just had one of my Model 63s out to take pictures on another forum and figured a new thread should grow before the big pruner comes along.

This is a Miroku-made Model 63 I bought in Y2K in Colorado in a pawn shop. (part of a great gun deal)
The fit and finish is actually better than original Winchesters mainly due to the polishing process. Winchester used wooden wheels covered in leather in their side polish machines. The Japanese are precision grinding with much better tools. The internals are different. I'll photo the '03, 63 and Japanese 63 side by side to show the internal differences.

It used to be '03s were really inexpensive due to ammo shortage, but that was cured years ago and 22 Win. Auto ammo is sometimes available with LR isn't!
The Model '03 is the world's first successful 22 rimfire semi-auto. Since Long Rifle ammo was loaded with most anything in 1900, including black powder, it took special ammo made for the specific gun to operate reliably.

The pictures shows the Model 63 on top and '03 on the bottom. The only real difference beyond dimensions of the magazine tube is the shell stop. The M63 uses a heavy stamped part while the '03 has a milled part of lower profile.

Seldom can one model last a hundred years without major changes.

Show your guns and tell your stories of one of the world's great guns.

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Hernandez86_

· #21 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
Yes. That's a 'funnel' that allows the strut to line up with the hole in a hurry.

That’s another “small” problem I was having. When I would take the rifle apart and I would decock the gun, the spring and rod would fall out of place so I’d have to manually line it back up.

JBelk

Discussion Starter · #22 · 3 mo ago

I've said many times that in my OPINION, the Model '03/63 and Model 12 shotgun are the finest guns not designed by John M. Browning. T.C. Johnson was truly a firearms design genius of like stature.
Notice that Browning saw the advantage of the straight-line butt feed system and used it on his own 22 auto design.

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JBelk

Discussion Starter · #23 · 3 mo ago

A correction!! I just took apart my Model 03. The mainspring block has a cavity TOWARDS the muzzle. The mainspring strut is engaged with the block at rest and more so while cocked. Note the hole in the end of the mainspring strut. Run a wire through that hole then pull the trigger. Now, the mainspring is captured and easy to deal with.
The shell stop is considerably different than a Model 63. It is a machined leaf, lightly spring-loaded upwards.

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Hernandez86_

· #24 · 3 mo ago

Hernandez86_ said:
That’s what I thought! Mines was backwards the whole time then. The smaller sided hole was facing the butt stock. I’ll make sure I flip it around when I get to swapping the inner tube. Thanks so much man.

I can’t catch a break lol

JBelk said:
Yes. That's a 'funnel' that allows the strut to line up with the hole in a hurry.
The Model 1903 was the world's first successful semi-auto rimfire. It was all about friction reduction because they had no lightweight alloy parts to help with inertia.

I can’t catch a break lol I was cleaning the gun today and this little spring fell off. I’m 99% sure it goes to the safety mechanism. Wishlist it, it feels loose but when I push it in there it gives it a nice “click” working the safety. My question is, how in the world is it supposed to be held in there? I was so lucky I didn’t lose it.

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JBelk

Discussion Starter · #25 · 3 mo ago

That is the detent spring for the cross-bolt safety and its held in by the butt stock. It should have a round nosed pin on the front that supplies the 'click' to the safety. It's easy to 'turn' another pin from a piece of nail and the springs can be bought at any chain hardware store. Those kinds of gun parts can be made by electric drill and a file, if you don't want to pay retail for simple parts. Those racks of cardboard index drawers are plumb full of 'gun parts'.

Trivia--- The Model 1903 was first made for gallery use only and had no safety of any kind. That didn't last long.

Hernandez86_

· #26 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
That is the detent spring for the cross-bolt safety and its held in by the butt stock. It should have a round nosed pin on the front that supplies the 'click' to the safety. It's easy to 'turn' another pin from a piece of nail and the springs can be bought at any chain hardware store. Those kinds of gun parts can be made by electric drill and a file, if you don't want to pay retail for simple parts. Those racks of cardboard index drawers are plumb full of 'gun parts'.

Trivia--- The Model 1903 was first made for gallery use only and had no safety of any kind. That didn't last long.

Sorrry I’m kinda confused. So am I missing something else that’s holds it in place or do I just let it rest against the buttstock?

JBelk

Discussion Starter · #27 · 3 mo ago

Make sure the round-ended plunger is against the safety. The spring is held in by the buttstock only. If you need more tension on the safety button, stretch the spring about a coil longer and try it.

Hernandez86_

· #28 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
Make sure the round-ended plunger is against the safety. The spring is held in by the buttstock only. If you need more tension on the safety button, stretch the spring about a coil longer and try it.

Thanks buddy, this forum has helped me so much. I’ll try it tomorrow as I’m in bed now lol

Hernandez86_

· #29 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
Make sure the round-ended plunger is against the safety. The spring is held in by the buttstock only. If you need more tension on the safety button, stretch the spring about a coil longer and try it.

Another question

I’m sorry to bug so much. Where does this part go? “Magazine friction spring” I have a feeling I might need it but I’m hoping I don’t. Does this coke with the putter magazine tube?

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JBelk

Discussion Starter · #30 · 3 mo ago

That supplies the 'drag' to the mag tube so it doesn't fall out while loading. Its worth the money to buy one instead of make it and you DO want one.

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Hernandez86_

· #31 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
That supplies the 'drag' to the mag tube so it doesn't fall out while loading. Its worth the money to buy one instead of make it and you DO want one.

Does it go inside the tube? I ordered a tube on eBay and it seems like it comes with most of everything. Winchester 1903 03 .22 Outer Magazine Tube, Throat & Cartridge Cut Off #I129 | eBay

JBelk

Discussion Starter · #32 · 3 mo ago

It fits into the side of the tube so it rubs on the inner tube. I don't see it in the ebay pics but it should be there. It'll be near the right hand end near the butt plate. It's a small uncomplicated part but a PITA to make because its also a leaf spring.

Hernandez86_

· #33 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
It fits into the side of the tube so it rubs on the inner tube. I don't see it in the ebay pics but it should be there. It'll be near the right hand end near the butt plate. It's a small uncomplicated part but a PITA to make because its also a leaf spring.

Damn it! I really hope it comes with it. How is it held in there? I just saw what you’re talking about. Homestead has some good pictures of where it fire but they don’t have it in stock. I wonder if the model 63 has one that would fit it? I never noticed this part.

JBelk

Discussion Starter · #34 · 3 mo ago

the left hand end as seen in their pictures slips into a slot cut in the mag tube and then the stock holds it there. If you see an empty slot near the butt end of the tube, you'll need to find one. Since the M63 has a smaller diameter magazine system, I doubt that part interchanges.
If you have to make one, start with a piece of metal banding that fits the slot in the magazine and cut it fit. Notice the nose is rounded so the tube slides either way. Shape the nose to fall into the deep follower dent so the tube comes out of the stock and stops at the notch. The follower is clear of the loading gate and the inner tube is held in place until the gun is full and the tube pushed back into place and locked in the rear notch.

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Hernandez86_

· #35 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
the left hand end as seen in their pictures slips into a slot cut in the mag tube and then the stock holds it there. If you see an empty slot near the butt end of the tube, you'll need to find one. Since the M63 has a smaller diameter magazine system, I doubt that part interchanges.
If you have to make one, start with a piece of metal banding that fits the slot in the magazine and cut it fit. Notice the nose is rounded so the tube slides either way. Shape the nose to fall into the deep follower dent so the tube comes out of the stock and stops at the notch. The follower is clear of the loading gate and the inner tube is held in place until the gun is full and the tube pushed back into place and locked in the rear notch.

oldarmsofidaho.com

Winchester Model 1903 Magazine Tube Friction Spring

You are considering a vintage Winchester Model 1903 Magazine Tube Friction Spring. It's in good shape with light wear.

oldarmsofidaho.com

oldarmsofidaho.com

These guys have 1 left in stock and I think numrich also had a couple. Gonna go ahead an order it just in case

thanks buddy!

Hernandez86_

· #36 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
the left hand end as seen in their pictures slips into a slot cut in the mag tube and then the stock holds it there. If you see an empty slot near the butt end of the tube, you'll need to find one. Since the M63 has a smaller diameter magazine system, I doubt that part interchanges.
If you have to make one, start with a piece of metal banding that fits the slot in the magazine and cut it fit. Notice the nose is rounded so the tube slides either way. Shape the nose to fall into the deep follower dent so the tube comes out of the stock and stops at the notch. The follower is clear of the loading gate and the inner tube is held in place until the gun is full and the tube pushed back into place and locked in the rear notch.

Do you know why the one on numrich and the one from homestead look different? Ones has a squared off edge and the other one looks more rounded like.

JBelk

Discussion Starter · #37 · 3 mo ago

The outside shape is not as important as the internal cam area that exerts drag on the tube. That part was probably made by a self advance stamp press and hand ground to finish on a fixture. Its great entertainment to go through an old gun under a good microscope to see the tiny fits and fixes as the gun went together.

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Hernandez86_

· #38 · 3 mo ago (Edited)

The model 63 doesn’t even have one. It’s kinda cool how they “incorporated” one in there. It’s built in. All they did was a cut out and bend the cut part.

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Hernandez86_

· #39 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
The outside shape is not as important as the internal cam area that exerts drag on the tube. That part was probably made by a self advance stamp press and hand ground to finish on a fixture. Its great entertainment to go through an old gun under a good microscope to see the tiny fits and fixes as the gun went together.

Would I be asking for too much to ask you to show me what yours looks like? Lol

Hernandez86_

· #40 · 3 mo ago

JBelk said:
I just had one of my Model 63s out to take pictures on another forum and figured a new thread should grow before the big pruner comes along.

This is a Miroku-made Model 63 I bought in Y2K in Colorado in a pawn shop. (part of a great gun deal)
The fit and finish is actually better than original Winchesters mainly due to the polishing process. Winchester used wooden wheels covered in leather in their side polish machines. The Japanese are precision grinding with much better tools. The internals are different. I'll photo the '03, 63 and Japanese 63 side by side to show the internal differences.

It used to be '03s were really inexpensive due to ammo shortage, but that was cured years ago and 22 Win. Auto ammo is sometimes available with LR isn't!
The Model '03 is the world's first successful 22 rimfire semi-auto. Since Long Rifle ammo was loaded with most anything in 1900, including black powder, it took special ammo made for the specific gun to operate reliably.

The pictures shows the Model 63 on top and '03 on the bottom. The only real difference beyond dimensions of the magazine tube is the shell stop. The M63 uses a heavy stamped part while the '03 has a milled part of lower profile.

Seldom can one model last a hundred years without major changes.

Show your guns and tell your stories of one of the world's great guns.

Im

JBelk said:
I just had one of my Model 63s out to take pictures on another forum and figured a new thread should grow before the big pruner comes along.

This is a Miroku-made Model 63 I bought in Y2K in Colorado in a pawn shop. (part of a great gun deal)
The fit and finish is actually better than original Winchesters mainly due to the polishing process. Winchester used wooden wheels covered in leather in their side polish machines. The Japanese are precision grinding with much better tools. The internals are different. I'll photo the '03, 63 and Japanese 63 side by side to show the internal differences.

It used to be '03s were really inexpensive due to ammo shortage, but that was cured years ago and 22 Win. Auto ammo is sometimes available with LR isn't!
The Model '03 is the world's first successful 22 rimfire semi-auto. Since Long Rifle ammo was loaded with most anything in 1900, including black powder, it took special ammo made for the specific gun to operate reliably.

The pictures shows the Model 63 on top and '03 on the bottom. The only real difference beyond dimensions of the magazine tube is the shell stop. The M63 uses a heavy stamped part while the '03 has a milled part of lower profile.

Seldom can one model last a hundred years without major changes.

Show your guns and tell your stories of one of the world's great guns.

I’m stumped and getting ready to throw the towel. I installed the model 1903 inner and outer magazine tube. The buttstock won’t fit the tube although it’s a 1903 stock… the receiver and the bottom half of the rifle will not couple together. It looks like the hammer hits the carrier bolt.

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