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Lately I've been considering either a Winchester Model 94 or one of the new Marlin Model 1895 Cowboys, because I've always wanted a "real" western rifle, for anything from targets to elk.  But the contest isn't even, because the Model 94 is available only in the "weaker" .45 Colt, while the Marlin comes in the more powerful 45-70.  When is Winchester going to make a 45-70 version of the Model 94 Trails End?
 

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JT,
     I doubt if you'll ever see that combination.  Take a look at the 1886, though.                  ID
 

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JT- Rumor has it that Winchester won't produce a 45-70 '94 because it would adversely impact sales of the 1886. Instead, they've offered the .410 bore '94, which seems utterly useless to me. I haven't even seen one offered or reviewed anywhere, even in the breathless, pandering, all-worshiping gun magazines (don't get me started there). Now, the BigBore is history too. Winchester seems to have lost touch with it's heritage. Maybe this is just what happens when American industry is sold out to foreign interests.
 

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Money-Money Money. Just be thankful Marlin produces what it does. They have the upper hand and Winchester knows it. That 45/70 boomer will never be chambered in a Winchester for us. Now ,that being said, Winchester prove me wrong and I'll be the first to buy.
 

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I hope they don't, my 444 BB94 is a poor excuse for a lever gun I had to do so much work on the thing to get the trigger and action smooth. Now it's OK but all My Marlins were 1000% better out of the Box. The one thing the BB94 has going for it is very handy in the thick brush, light and short. .........................Marko  
 

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That may be the first negative comment about Marlin Leverguns I have seen on this or any other forum.

Do you think your gun was an exception or the norm? I've heard of long breakin on the lever action and there are very few guns that don't need a trigger lightening these days.
 

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Chief- The BB94 referred to is a Winchester. I sold mine-it was a great gun and I miss it. Between the Japanese manufacturing, and the Belgian ownership, Winchester is suffering.--Bob
 

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I think we would be surprised at what Winchester would do if ENOUGH people would e.mail them, call them, or write them and suggest that they chamber model '94 for the 45-70! It would make a wonderful combination. Why not get several thousand hunters/shooters to contact Winchester? Count me in.

Regards,
Timberwolf
 

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   My feeling on this one is why? I've hunted with '94s for many years. I currently use a SRC in 38-55. The new 1886 extra lt. wt. is a delight. Nothing is as sweetly smooth as an '86. I have fired a few hundred rounds through mine so far, with no problems. It is my contention that the 86 is inherently much stronger than the 94. I know that they are expensive, but worth every cent. Call me crazy, I don't care. After all it's only an opinion. Cheers.
 

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I agree that the 1886 Lightweight is a viable alternative to the 94 in 45-70. I only wish they would make it with a fully extended magazine. The 45-70 is a great round for its intended purpose, namely, cowboy shooting and hunting large game at close range.

Have a great week-end,
Timberwolf
 

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Timberwolf- I've handled the 1886 and agree with you. Only one thing is stopping me from buying the '86. The price tag is way out of reason. At about &#361000.00 a copy. They can keep 'em.
 

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Pourboy,
  I also have a Marlin 1895 Limited Edition, serial number 25. I have not shot it yet, but the action is very smooth and evidently strong. Yet, it simply doesn't have that "cowboy in the t.v. westerns" look. There's truly something nostalgic about the Winchester isn't there? The Marlin is strong and serviceable, and the ONLY thing I don't like about it is its looks. I admit that I'm partial toward Winchesters. Always have been!

Best wishes in all good things,
Timberwolf
 

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  I know that the suggested retail on the 1886 E.L. is 1000+, but there no reason to pay this price. I ordered mine in Sept. of 2000 at a cost of 825. and change through a local dealer. And this is California,too. Take a look at ads in Gun List. Best of luck.        
 

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Timberwolf- I must agree with you about the Winchesters. They look and feel "right". I own more Marlins than Winchesters at this point (it fluctuates), but greatly prefer the Winchester 1894 to any other rifle.

Mike- I have an FFL. The latest average dealer price on an '86 EL is &#36800.00. The larger discount houses can buy cheaper than a lowly mom & pop FFL (massive purchasing can do that for you).
 

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POURBOY,
  When you get the opportunity, please hit me with a private e.mail. I have some questions and info for you about Winchester rifles, 1886, 94, etc.
  When I hear from you I will give you a number where you can reach me.

Regards,
Timberwolf
E.MAIL: [email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #17
For me, the Model 94 "Trails End" is the finest looking levergun currently made; I'd love to have one, but I'd like to be able to use it for big-game and deer hunting as well as for targets and tin cans; and the 45 Colt cartridge just doesn't pack big-game punch in my book.

On the other hand, the Marlin 1895 "Cowboy" in 45-70 is definitely a proper tool for dropping big game, but it isn't nearly as beautiful as the Winchester and besides, my local gunsmiths all look at me like I'm crazy when I ask if I can order one.  They've never seen one, they tell me, and they don't ever expect to.  They tell me that Marlin is famous for listing guns in their catalog that can't actually be obtained by anyone who doesn't have some special connections.  Is this a wacky business or what?  Here I am, ready with cash to buy a new levergun, but one manufacturer doesn't chamber serious cartridges and the other one is only pretending to sell a product.

Almost makes me want to find a new hobby.
 

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JT,

I know several people that have the new 1895C here in western Montana. Not many available but you can get them if you really want one!
 

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Everyone says they want one ('94/.45-70) But if you will compare the internal width of the '94 Winchester to the diameter of the .45-70 case head you will see the most obvious reason why it won't be done, it won't fit!  Even if it did, if you wanted to load it to the usually accepted capabilities of the cartridge you would fing that it was less that enjoyable.

And for anyone who questions the .45 Colt as a viable big game cartridge, then consider this.  A .45-70 loaded with the Lyman 457122HP over a full charge of FFFg does 1400+FPS for 1450 FPE or so.  A .45 Colt from a 24" rifle (Marlin CowboyII) loaded with a Speer 300 FP and 23.8 gr. H-110/296 (yes, they are identical, not just similar!) does 1638 FPS for 1943 FPE from my rifle.  Everyone I know agrees that the .45-70 is , without question, adequate for deer, elk, or whatever, so what is wrong with the .45 Colt which develops 17% higher velocity for 34% greater muzzle energy?

This isn't the first time I have seen people argue that the .45-70 is great while the .45 Colt is inadequate.  I admit I would prefer the .45-70 with a 400 gr. or so bullet at 1600+ FPS for elk if given a choice, but I wouldn't hesitate a minute to use the .45 Colt if the opportunity arose.
 

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And, BTW, the usual caution about working up a load applies to the above load!  This load was put up in a Winchester .454 case cut to .45 Colt length.  This uses a small rifle primer and develops less pressure and velocity then a conventional .45 Colt case with the same load and a large pistol primer.  I know this is counter-intuitive, but if you doubt it get a few .454 cases and try it.

Again, don't try to shoot this load without working up to it!
 
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