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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

Have any of you bought a case of Wolf ammo at really low prices and then discovered they wouldn't shoot groups for beans in your Ranch rifle, your Bugger Ruger M-77 or your TC Contender ? Then discover it's against the law for a dealer to buy back from the customer who wants a refund ?

Well, guys, you too can easily convert that steel-cased ammo that you recently have been cussing. I've done that and discovered that they will group 1.6", c-t-c, 3-shot groups, at 100 yards in my TC Contender. That is the same size groups as I got from factory Remington 55 grainers and federal 40 grainers. Now, I'm not saying that those are good groups by everyone's standards, but they tickled me to death ! I wanted to salvage my Wolf ammo costs. Success !

What I did: I bought some 55 grain, fmj bt, Winchester bullets. Then I pulled the Wolf bullets. Then I seated the new Winchester bullets to the top on the cannalure. Then I used a Lee factory crimp die to crimp them in GOOD ! Then I put a full length sizing die in my press. Then I put my contender on my bench. Then I sized the cartridges slowly and gently until they would chamber fully and easily into the Contender barrel. Whee !!

I hope this will help some poor soul by saving him some money and provide him pleasure.

:D Chuck
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Chuck, in the days of old I believe this practice was commonly referred to as "Mexican Match." No idea why. Pull FMJ bullets from ball ammo and replace with equal weight or lighter Sierra Matchkings.

Tip - bullets are easier to pull if you put them in a seating die and just 'crack' the neck tension/sealer by seating a hair deeper, before you pull them.

Glad to hear it worked, I did not know that there was anything salvagable regarding the Russian ammo. I have not been impressed with it. Good report.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi MikeG,

I am convinced that most Wolf ammo is/was originally designed for military rifles which had a different twist-rate. In my case, it was easier to change the bullet weight than change the barrels. Reading Shilen's twist data was very educational and helpful to me.

America's Hornady 75 grain bullets spread their bullets over the same wide area as did the 62 grain Wolf. Most wouldn't stay on a target paper 14" square while aiming at the center-most aiming point. This while the lighter bullets, including my restructured ones, made nice little groups in the four corners of the same target paper. On previous range sessions, other makes of bullets weighing in excess of 55 grains shot humongous groups so I'm not picking on ANY manufacturer. Just trying to help the thousands of people who buy cheap and/or military ammo or ammo having heavy bullets. Tests were all the same for the three firearms mentioned in the original thread.

There are many people who "give up" on Wolf or anything else in steel cases for reasons known only to them. I'm trying only to help them.

(Tip - bullets are easier to pull if you put them in a seating die and just 'crack' the neck tension/sealer by seating a hair deeper, before you pull them.) Right you are, MikeG, but pulling the bullets from the Wolf ammo proved that they were not seated evenly, nor would the bullets be released evenly when fired. Taper crimps weren't of much use to me, but the factory crimps were the ticket to success.

The tinyest compliment from you means a great deal to me, because my my great respect for you. Thank you very much.

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi MikeG, and any others reading this,

Re: re-seating a bullet to be pulled " a hair" to break the seal" with the case. Yep, I've done that with brass cases and was happy with my successes. So-o-o- I went back this morning to rehab more Wolf ammo.

The first five cases I re-seated the bullets .003" deeper. The next five cases ( THESE ARE STEEL CASES, REMEMBER) i seated them .006" deeper. Then I pulled the first five, expending much MORE effort than usual. Then I pulled the bullets from FOUR of the five cases, cussing and moaning the blues. I could not pull one bullet no matter how hard I tried and I finally gave up on it.

I, therefore do not recommend anyone to try reseating bullets into steel cases to "break their seal".

I love doing new things that won't kill me or another person, and learning from all sources about all things. (Republicans save your speaches for the congregation. I've already been there and done enough of that. heh heh)

God bless, MikeG, and all you others.

:D Chuck
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Interesting, Chuck. Must be something different about the steel cases. So, they pull OK if you don't seat them deeper first? How are you pulling them, a coller or an inertial puller?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi MikeG,

Another interesting thing about the Wolf steel cases: Just using my naked, old, declining eyes, they do not appear to be roll crimped, the bullets are not cannelured but they have a boattail, and of course, the cases are enameled. The cases or bullets show no sign of any "sealant" placed on them. Therefore, I am assuming that the cases are taper crimped from the mouth all the way down to the first bend at the shoulder area. The bullets pull very hard when only a couple of thousandths are remaining in the cases. Interesting.

My thought also drifted to an inertial puller. But I didn't want to break mine so I didn't use it. I visualize an inertial puller needed for these cases as something in the neighborhood of a 8 pound sledge hammer with a boulder the size of my Hyundai to pound against. :D

Ya got me again, MikeG. I don't know what a "coller" puller is and would appreciate your teaching me about it.

Just for the heck of it, I pulled ten bullets from brass-cased South African-made military ammo. With the Wolf ammo I had to use four or five HARD wacks to dislodge the bullet. The first HARD wack on the So. African ammo resulted in the case being thrown out of the shell holder, the powder scattered, while the bullet remained in the pulling die ! :D
. The bullets had no cannelure, BUT THERE WAS A BLACK, PAINTED RING AROUND THE BASE OF THE BULLET, which I assume ( yeah I know what "assume" means" :) ) was placed there as a "seal" for waterproofing and to help hold in the bullet. These shot poor groups in my Contender, but "pretty good" from my Bugger Ruger and ""only fair" from my Ranch rifle and NEF single shot.

More data will be forthcoming as I'll shoot again in a couple of weeks, and if anyone is interested in further experimentation.

See ya'all.

:D Chuck
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Chuck,

Meant to say 'collet' not 'collar.' Sorry..... it sounds like a collet-type puller is what you are using (has a ring that grabs the bullet and you use it in your press).
 

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Hi, Chuck:
I used an inertial puller on a few .45 ACPs that had that black painted ring around the bullet. Get a bigger boulder for .223s. :D

Bye
Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi Jack,

Yep !! Maybe I'll try a 12 pound sledgehammer and a rock the size of my van AND A 400 POUND GORILLA TO LIFT THE SLEDGEHAMMER.
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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Years ago, I read that rolling the necks of military rounds between two steel plates would break the sealant so that bullet pulling would be easier. I remember trying it on some US Ball ammo, using a flat plate on the bench and the edge of a piece of 1/4" plate to roll the case back and forth - was able to use either the press collet type puller or the inertial puller with a little more than normal effort to pull the FMJ's.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi kdub,

US ARMY BALL ammo is brass cased. Rolling helped them. Seating them a couple of thousandths haelped them. My So. African military, brass cased ammo, practically THREW their bullets at me, they required so little effort. None of thoser things worked with my Wolf steel cases-------just hard work.

I can now, using my RCBS R2 press, pull 25 bullets and stuff in the replacements---period----in 25 minutes time and one sore palm later. heh heh

I think it should be against the law for any manufacturer to NOT place on their gun barrels the rate of twist. I think it should be against the law for any ammo maker to NOT place on their ammo boxes the Rate of twist best applicable for that box of bullets.

If those two things were in effect last year, they would have saved me much mental anguish and about $1500 buckeroos.
I've been at this game for over 50 years and don't want to hear about how I should have done this or that from anyone.

:D chuck
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Ah, Chuck, you're missing the obvious. What you now need is a new gun to shoot that ammo in!!!!!
 
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