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Discussion Starter #1
Got a .30 cal rifle barrel with 1:10 twist that I've been trying to shoot 130 grain pills out of without much good happening. Today, shot some 155 grain with pretty good results. Am now thinking that 1:10 will not properly stabilize the lighter pills. Do not really want to go heavier than 150's if I can help it. Wondering if 150 round nose would have a longer bearing surface and thereby have better stabilization in the 1:10. Also thinking that I need something with a 1:14 to stabilize the 130's............................... Thoughts???? Thanks.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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My 1:10 300RUM will stabilize 110's. I've found and several here will confirm my findings that you can't really "over stabilize" a bullet, but you can "over spin" one to the point of disintegration. The aforementioned load comes close I think but Hornady says it won't.

I'm not sure what to think as to why you're rifle won't shoot the 130's, there could be several reasons starting with your rifle just doesn't like some aspect of the load, powder amount, seating depth, bullet pull etc.

RJ
 
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Agree with RJ. 130 grain shouldn't have fragile jackets, at least not enough for bullets to come apart in the air. My 1:10 twists have shot fine with lighter bullets.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Those bullets likely have a long jump to the rifling, and that can exaggerate other problems in your load process. Do you have a concentricity gage, so that you KNOW they are being seated straight? What is the "jump" to the lands? Last, have you tried another brand of bullet with a similar weight?

125gr. BTs shoot surprisingly well in my .30-06.....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, All those words are encouraging. I have tried several different loads and several of the 125-130 bullets, but only getting about 3 inch groups at 100 yards. The 155's I shot today put 5 holes in about 1 inch which is by far the best that I've gotten so far. Will keep trying............................ having a hard time finding .30 cal pills right now.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Which bullets and what are you going to use them for?
 

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The shorter the bullet the slower twist needed to stabilize it, so the OP’s 110-grain bullets are fully stabilized in the 1:10” barrel. Some seem to think that bullets can be “over stabilized” but that makes little sense. A poorly made bullet can come apart or have poor density concentricity which a tight twist can make worse, but that is not likely the OP’s problem.

”Over stabilized”? My Ruger .243 with 1:9” twist launches the short 55-grain BTips at 4000 fps with sub-moa aggregates, so the “over stabilization” theory doesn’t really pan out with good bullets and varmint-level accuracy.



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Discussion Starter #8
This barrel is custom 15" for .30 Herrett. Would shorter length barrel be a cause for the light bullets lack of accuracy? ( I'm not thinking so) Also, so far I am shooting fairly light startling loads. Would pushing the pill somewhat faster help? I've also shot some 135 cast and those made groups look like buckshot at 20 yards........... all over the place. Ultimately, I'd like to try to take a deer with this cartridge.................... so I was thinking lighter, more velocity = better killing power?
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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The shorter the bullet the slower twist needed to stabilize it, so the OP’s 110-grain bullets are fully stabilized in the 1:10” barrel. Some seem to think that bullets can be “over stabilized” . . . . .

”Over stabilized”? My Ruger .243 with 1:9” twist launches the short 55-grain BTips at 4000 fps with sub-moa aggregates, so the “over stabilization” theory doesn’t really pan out with good bullets and varmint-level accuracy.



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Where I was trying to go actually but poorly explained on my part.

RJ
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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You can't stabilize a shorter, lighter bullet "less" than a longer, heavier one with a given twist rate.

What brands of bullets did you try? Both lighter and heavier? That might be a clue.

"Light" loads would only be a problem if you weren't getting complete powder combustion. What powders are you using? Now that you've listed the cartridge and barrel length, someone might have a more specific load to try.
 

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While not highly probable, it is possible the OP has a lightly damaged Crown that should be inspected to remove that possible cause. perhaps some asymmetrical wear from cleaning?

Chev. William
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You can't stabilize a shorter, lighter bullet "less" than a longer, heavier one with a given twist rate.

What brands of bullets did you try? Both lighter and heavier? That might be a clue.

"Light" loads would only be a problem if you weren't getting complete powder combustion. What powders are you using? Now that you've listed the cartridge and barrel length, someone might have a more specific load to try.
I generally try to stick to Hornady bullets. I tried their 130 spire points. Best results were with IMR-4227, but when I say best, it was not close to what I'm certain the cartridge is capable of. Load info is kinda skimpy for Herretts so it seems that I have limited options. I have loaded many different cartridges in the Contender platform and have never have had this much trouble getting one to shoot well. It may be a while before I can update, as I am out of bullets right now except for the 135 cast, which as I've said proved to be the worst so far. I don't remember if I did a chamber cast on this barrel but may have to play with overall length. Have not taken a good close look at the crown, but this barrel comes from a well known and respected maker, so I doubt that crown is the problem, but I will look at that real close.
 

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Increase velocity with one of the powders on the fast side. Steve Herrett, inventor of the cartridge used 4198 and 125 Ballistic Tips but he was shooting varmints, not deer.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Increase velocity with one of the powders on the fast side. Steve Herrett, inventor of the cartridge used 4198 and 125 Ballistic Tips but he was shooting varmints, not deer.
Thanks. Not sure if any of the load data that I have available lists 4198, but I do have some of that on hand. Will try some of that.
 

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I shoot 36 grain Barnes @ just over 4,000 fps, from a 1in9" twist 24" barrel,... no stabilizing problems, great groups!

You may want to look into Barnes all copper bullets,... copper is lighter and produce longer bullets for their weight.

Personally, I believe slow and heavy, kills just as good, as fast and light. I am very happy with my aught6, 1in10" twist, with 220 grain Hornady RN.

I also think you can get what you are seeking by trying different components.
 

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I’ve been shooting the .30 Herrett since 1976, in both a 10” and a 14” but they had 1:14” twists. Herrett and Milek designed the cartridge around 110-grain RN bullets designed for the .30 Carbine, finding the Speer offering to give the best performance in the original 10” barrels. Pointed 110s available back then were just too tough for expansion at Herrett velocities. Later they used various 125 and 130-grain bullets of that era, but those gave marginal expansion, “try to hit bone” was Milek’s disclaimer that they were really too hard. I know, I tried them and there was no real expansion out of the 10” barrel on game or wet newsprint even at muzzle velocities. Steve Herrett died before the Nosler 125 BTip was introduced, but it and the Speer 125 TNT will give decent expansion at Herrett velocities.

I can find no reference that Herrett or Milek used 4198, the data Milek provided in his early magazine articles (1973-1978) was for W296/H110, H4227, N-200 and 2400. In my barrels the modern 125s do very well over H110 and AA1680, but then I never tried 4198, it may do well.

Out of the OP’s 15” barrel I would recommend either of the above modern 125 bullets over the 110s, although today the pointed Hornady 110 VMax will expand very well - perhaps too well at close range at top velocities. He just needs to work up a load like he would do for any other cartridge. Bullet weight is not his problem.


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+2 . . . I agree with increasing your load. I've had a couple rifles that shot poorly with my desired bullets at starting load data, then became very accurate as i got closer to maximum load
 

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The Shadow
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Bunches of folks don't remember the RPM thread from about a decade ago....

BH,
Stability is about RPM and bullet length. Shorter bullets need less RPM to stabilize, than longer bullets.
I doubt your Herret has enough fur on its teeth, to over-spin even 110gr bullets. But if you want to know for sure, give me the specific bullet and a velocity.

I think Mike is on the right path, bullet isn't hitting things squarely.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks all. Great info good help. Many more things to check. Biggest need now is to get more pills. Midsouth finally has a few in stock
 
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