OBJECTION to proposed Remington-Walker Class action - Page 4 - Shooters Forum
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  #61  
Old 09-26-2015, 03:36 PM
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Jbelk,
Sorry to take so long to respond. I don't get much "sitting down" time. I looked at my Titanium 700. It has a silver, grooved face. Also, the bolt is not locked when the safety is on. My gun is factory original. Do I have something different?
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  #62  
Old 09-26-2015, 03:43 PM
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Silver Walkers are not at all common. I'm trying to figure out how many might be out there and during what time frame.
On the left side of the barrel just ahead of the recoil lug there could be a series of letters. Hopefully three letters more or less in a row. Are they present? They quit that for a couple years. but those are month and year and assembly numbers.

The unlocked bolt on Safe means it was made after Oct. 1982.

Thank you!

Don't post the serial, but if you know when it was made or bought it'll help.
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  #63  
Old 09-26-2015, 04:13 PM
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The left side of the barrel just has the Remington name and Ilion, NY then 308 WIN. The right side of the barrell has an x in a triangle, then an oval with the letters REP in it then an X. I wouldn't post the whole serial number. It starts with TT which I always thought might have been for the titanium models. Then there are two zeros then four digits.
I just checked my records. I bought it new in January of 2003. I thought I had it longer than that.
From your reply, I assume it is a Walker and I should replace the trigger. I only take the safety off when I see a deer. It would always be pointed at the ground in front of me. No one would get hurt but I would be extremely pissed off.
I always assumed my guns would last long enough for my grandchildren to pass my guns to their grandchildren.

Last edited by tundraman; 09-26-2015 at 04:41 PM.
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  #64  
Old 09-26-2015, 05:50 PM
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You could be right about the TT. It sounds like a limited run of rifles. What's titanium about it, I wonder? Probably the firing pin.

Check out your markings compared with these-Remington Society of America - questions/barrelcodes and lets see if we can figure it out. It could have been in that '99 to 01 gap of not being stamped.

Now that you know you have a Walker trigger and know it has a connector in it, it's up to you what to do about it. Many will choose to recognize 'that dog might bite' and be more careful around it. Others might want to neuter the dog with another trigger. Some might want to swap that green dog for another one, but some of those new puppies are likely to grow up to be just as unpredictable.

I'm pretty sure I looked at too many XMP triggers today.
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  #65  
Old 09-27-2015, 05:52 AM
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The receiver is titanium, it has a fluted barrel, hollow/skelton bolt handle, and some other things to save weight. It has a 22" barrel and weighs in at 5Lb. 4oz. empty. In .308, it is a great hunting rifle.
I went to the website. It doesn't all even up for my gun. The s/n prefix TT is for 1949, that's not correct for my gun. Now that I see the left side markings; I definitely don't have them. According to the web site, unmarked guns were made from 8/99 to 10/01. That might be possible for my gun. I know I bought it in 2003. I'm pretty sure that model had just come out and I had to have one. The site goes on to say that when they weren't date stamping the barrels; they were putting the code on the end flap of the box. One of the things I always do with new guns, don't know why (just the record keeping habit I have), is to peel the label off the end flap that has all the bar codes, model #'s, s/n, etc. I don't know if this is where they would have put the date code. The only thing on that label that doesn't make sense is "14AW" which doesn't line up with the date stamps on the web either. Maybe they stamped it right on the cardboard end flap, not the label.
I guess it's possible that the gun was two years old when I bought it; but I doubt it. I could write to Remington; but if you're sure I have a Walker, I'm just going to replace it. If we thought Remington would put a good trigger in it; I wouldn't have a problem sending it to them. I have sent other guns to the manufacturer for warranty work. I keep a couple of boxes in my closet for packing. If I don't have a suitable box; my local gun store will give me one. But in this case I'm going with an after market.
Tnhunter and garbler like this.

Last edited by tundraman; 09-27-2015 at 05:54 AM.
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  #66  
Old 09-27-2015, 06:02 AM
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It's not uncommon at all for guns to be several years old when sold new. They get stuck back in a jobber's warehouse on the bottom of a stack and sometimes are forgotten for many years.

If you don't have the left side markings, I'd say it's a 'gap gun'.

I'd like to buy that Walker trigger if you're going to replace it. It's easier for me to see the changes by looking at triggers than it is by going through hundreds of blue prints trying to sort them out.
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  #67  
Old 09-27-2015, 06:29 AM
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I understand inventory getting stuck on the bottom of the pile and never making it to the top. I was thinking the titanium was a new introduction when I ran out and bought it. It was what I always wanted. At the time; if I remember correctly (which gets tougher all the time), this was the first production rifle in the 5 Lb. range.
I will get around to a new trigger. that may take a while. I'll give you the old one when I do; no need for money. I'm in it for the education.
JBelk and SMK-1000plus like this.
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  #68  
Old 09-27-2015, 06:35 AM
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I've been reviewing my memory banks for 'titanium'. I know Fred Wells made a monster action from it and General Motors wanted to know how he got away from the 'accumulated stress' features of the material. It scared Fred and he used the action for display for many years and never built a gun from it. Then, a BR maker, Panda maybe, came out with a Ti action with steel inserts in the recoil recesses. I've never seen one.
I know from being a machinist in an aerospace shop that some Ti alloys is miserable stuff to cut!!

I'm also in it for the education but it's hard work sometimes.
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  #69  
Old 09-27-2015, 06:58 AM
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In the late 90's, I was running a titanium foundry. Remington approached us about casting receivers in titanium alloy 6-4. We were too expensive for them. I don't know where that project ended up. The receiver may be a casting. When I get time; I'll look at it closely and see if I can tell.
I know there are some titanium revolver frames out there.
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  #70  
Old 10-02-2015, 06:24 AM
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I've posted my Objection at http://https://www.academia.edu/s/17...comment_105793

Comments are open for 19 days and people here might find what the engineer types might say about it worth noting.

I've posted my Supplementary Report here https://www.academia.edu/s/7c54d78c50#comment_105728

These are a matter of public record.

Reality may be a ***** but it sure is durable.
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  #71  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:30 AM
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Top Link..... Server Not Found.
Bottom Link....Requires Sign Up.
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  #72  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langss View Post
Top Link..... Server Not Found.
Bottom Link....Requires Sign Up.
I see the same.

Cheezywan
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  #73  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:20 AM
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Seems to be a Restricted Access type of Site. I finally signed up and then needed J.Belk to approve my sign up before I could get access to the Paper to read it.

It Was Worth the Hassle to Read his report on the XMP Trigger, then the comments already posted.

Why oh why did Remington decide to go into high production of the XMP Trigger Without doing Extensive Testing and Fault Tree Analysis First I can not understand in the Light of their Experiences with the "Walker" and "RCFC" ones.

I think Luckily I do not own any Remington commercial production firearms.
So these Trigger Problems, although Enlightening as to potential fault to watch for, do not affect me otherwise.
I do use multiple firearms equipped with simple Direct Triggers so the Cautions Mr. Belk told about in his book are pertinent to my collection.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
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  #74  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:34 AM
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Let's try this one for the Objection https://www.academia.edu/s/176ba42a4...=created_email

And this one for the Supplemental https://www.academia.edu/s/7c54d78c50

Those work for me but I'm signed in all the time.

The same documents are posted here at the beginning of the thread, but that site gets dozens of hits a week for the book and continuing information.

Last edited by JBelk; 10-02-2015 at 10:36 AM.
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  #75  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:36 AM
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Nope. Sign in only from here. Not to worry. I was just following along because I know folks that do own affected firearms. I've been keeping same informed of all of this.

Thank you JBelk for your efforts.

Cheezywan
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  #76  
Old 10-07-2015, 12:27 PM
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Jbelk,
I wrote earlier that I have a 1988 Remington Model 7 that came from Remington with a Factory Brown Precision Fiberglass Stock, it was a model they were going to produce but assumed Brown Precision Fiberglass Stocks were less expensive than Remington wood stocks. The gun has a blue/black grooved faced trigger that is not steel, I believe the hinged floor plate, trigger guard, trigger, etc were all made of aluminum to save weight, I believe the gun was advertised to weigh 5 1/4 pounds without ammo, Scope rings, bases or scope. I live on the edge of the world, Texas/Mexico border, & qualified gunsmith's are +/- 245 miles away. I don't want to drive that far without knowing exactly what I want/need to fix my gun.
At this point I wouldn't trust anything that Remington would provide to replace my defective trigger & I sure don't want to return my rifle to Remington for them to repair. My Model 7 came from the factory as a .243 but it wouldn't group smaller than 3 1/2 to 4 inches at 100 yards. I took it to a local gunsmith, that since went out of business & relocated, he suggested I try reboring the chamber to .243 Ackley Improved. I had him do the work & the rifle shoots 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards with a 18 inch barrel.
I want to replace the trigger with the best aftermarket trigger that will fix the defect in my rifle, I would appreciate your recommendation for a replacement trigger. I do like a very light trigger 1.5 to 2.5 pounds.
I really appreciate everything you've done to bring these defective guns to everyone's attention, it's a shame Remington didn't take responsibility for these defects & repair them much earlier. Now repairing all of them & settling all the lawsuits will likely put them out of business. I guess that's what Remington deserves for knowingly producing defective products that result in serious injuries & death, too bad so many were negatively effected by the consequences.

Thanks,

Tim
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  #77  
Old 10-07-2015, 02:52 PM
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Tim---
2 1/2 lbs is doable with a standard over-ride trigger like Timney, Jewel, Shilen and others. when you get below that weight you need a "three lever" trigger such as the 40XB 2 ounce, but if you going to use it for hunting, it has to be made much heavier.

I've had extremely good results with all three of the above triggers. Jewel makes a three lever if you want lighter than is safe with a single engagement. My suggestion is to get a good quality single lever trigger and be satisfied with a crisp 2.5 to 3 lbs.
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  #78  
Old 10-08-2015, 12:56 PM
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Thank you for the information, the original trigger is very light, I forget exactly how light, but the gun weighs nothing & that makes it hard to stabilize for accurate shooting. I really need to have it re-barreled, but since I had to retire I haven't been keeping up on repairing my or maintaining my guns. I have three Colt 1911s, a first year 2nd generation SAA, & two SAA .22s. The .22s are the only ones that are currently functional. It's hard to keep guns working when you can't drive more than 30 or 40 minutes & the nearest gunsmith is 245 miles away.
I am going to join the class action & write the judge an e-mail. I won't let Remington touch my gun because they can't be trusted to fix it properly. Remington should have to reimburse people that had their triggers replaced with safe aftermarket triggers for at least the retail value of the Remington trigger that fixes the defect, if they ever build one, & the time it would take a qualified gunsmith to remove & replace the defective trigger. I realize a Timney, Jewel, Shilen, etc will cost more & take longer to install than the currently nonexistent safe Remington replacement, I don't mind sucking up the difference I do mind Remington getting completely off the hook because they can't be trusted to make things right.
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  #79  
Old 10-08-2015, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBelk View Post
Tim---
2 1/2 lbs is doable with a standard over-ride trigger like Timney, Jewel, Shilen and others. when you get below that weight you need a "three lever" trigger such as the 40XB 2 ounce, but if you going to use it for hunting, it has to be made much heavier.

I've had extremely good results with all three of the above triggers. Jewel makes a three lever if you want lighter than is safe with a single engagement. My suggestion is to get a good quality single lever trigger and be satisfied with a crisp 2.5 to 3 lbs.
Among my other apparently dangerous rifles I have an old Hawken. It has a set trigger. First you cock it, safety one off. Put a cap on, safety two off. Then you aim it at the critter and pull the set trigger. No safety left. Do not even come close to the fire trigger unless you want to fire because you cannot even FEEL the pressure with your finger and it will fire. I have taken several White Tails with this dangerous smoke pole, and my oldest boy has one with it too. I guess what I am saying here is that if you know something is extremely dangerous and what that flaw is, then you can at least address it.

Mr. Belk has convinced me that the Remington Walker trigger is an accident waiting to happen. I have now read his book "Unsafe by Design". It is a very fun book to read by the way. What Remington has done is proclaim something safe while knowing it is NOT. That is unconscionable. I certainly will be extremely careful with mine until I can afford to change the trigger out myself. I certainly do NOT trust Remington now, or the crappy box they want you to ship the rifle in. Especially not with my rifle, which is inherited and on the exotic side to put it mildly. It is a target rifle, but not for paper targets.
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  #80  
Old 10-08-2015, 02:42 PM
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Thank you. Education is the key and in this particular case, the well educated have a big hole in their knowledge they don't know about.

It's really hard to address the unknown when it's also unseen. The 'belief' in an infallible gun is so strong it approaches religious ferocity and I'm the Devil with the details.
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