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  #1  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:15 PM
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IMR Powder Recall


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Sept. 2, 2015

"IMR Legendary Powders has announced a product safety warning and recall notice for IMR 4007 SSC on the six lot numbers listed below.

•10130139
•10131139
•10429139
•10430139
•80425139
•80426139

IMR has received reports that this particular powder in 1 lb. and 8 lb. containers may have become unstable due to possible rapid deterioration."

Original Notice with recall details here: http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/4007sscsafetywarning.pdf
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Last edited by unclenick; 11-18-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2016, 11:09 AM
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Wow powder go in bad? Did they store it in a jungle? Or either in some island? Powder can last for ever according to old timers that, saw action in ww1.....
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2016, 01:17 PM
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I'm still shooting Korean war 4831 and 4895.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2016, 07:45 PM
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I can remember buying brown paper bags full of Mil Surp. H-4831 at the end of its life, as it started to lose it's ginger. It still shot O.K. for me, as I didn't have a chrono in those days.
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Old 09-24-2016, 01:01 PM
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In my view, the fact that it's going bad tells you it was either manufactured or handled incorrectly before it went out for retail sale. Examples of how other lots of other powders made in other places and times never went bad are like saying that because _your_ plane has never crashed, _all_ planes never crash.
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Old 09-25-2016, 06:06 AM
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OR, the 'shelf life limited' formulation didn't work out quite right.....
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Old 09-25-2016, 06:11 AM
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I have several pounds of IMR 4007. I use it quite a lot in the .307 and .308 Winchester. I find it performs at its best when modetatly compressed. 4007 is an easy powder to work with.
I have never seen the lots listed.
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Old 10-01-2016, 02:48 PM
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It's not a new problem. Happens periodically. There was a lot of 4350 back about fifteen years ago that was going bad in under three years on the reloader's shelf. I don't know if this happened because the held back lots blended into new canister grade lots to correct burn rate are having an old age problem, or if the new lot maybe suffered inadequate blending of stabilizers, allowing some grains to start breaking down prematurely. Could also be a shipment getting stuck somewhere in the hot sun for awhile. Parked shipping container interiors can get up to 170F in some parts of the country. At that temperature, breakdown of even a bulk lot of entirely new powder could commence in about five months. Ones blended with powder that already has some years on it could go proportionally faster.

Lots of folks shoot old ammunition successfully, but you can't count on it. I know someone who has shot M1 ball from the 1920's and it still worked, while a few Garands have been burst by ammunition made between WWII and Korea. The main threat is that once the stabilizers are consumed, the deterrents can break down faster than the rest of the powder, causing the burn rate to increase. A fellow on TFL and a few other boards known as Slamfire has some declassified studies by the Navy showing samples of new 7.62 NATO ball ammo kept at, IIRC, 140F for eighteen months, produced chamber pressure increases to over 160% of the original lot test numbers, and well above proof pressure. This was due to that deterrent breakdown.

The bottom line is that there's no fixed rule you can go by. If you have old ammo it's a good idea to pull a random sampling down and have a good look at the powder. If some rounds fire more weakly or more strongly than others, that's a bad sign. I have the remains of a case of Berdan-primed 308 ball put together by Sellier & Bellot in 1982. All the ammo in one corner of the crate is fully bad. Cases started corroding through, often gluing the bullets to the necks; powder all oily and clumped together in some cases, but not others. But the rest of the crate didn't have a visible problem like that. Still, as early as 1993, when I got it, about one shot in ten was weak and wouldn't cycle my M1A.

Why did one corner go south faster than the rest? It's a thick wood box. I doubt one corner got a lot hotter than the rest. S&B told me they have no practical way to search records for stuff they built on contract during iron curtain days, so they couldn't speculate on why this ammo went south so early. This ammo was collet-crimped around a groove in its copper-washed soft steel jacketed FMJ bullets (not a cannelure), but there was no sealant and I can turn some of these bullets in their necks by hand, so there is the possibility one of them randomly went south in that corner and the acidic fumes contaminated the other cartridges nearby through the loose bullet fit. I don't really know though. It's just speculation on my part.
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Last edited by unclenick; 10-08-2016 at 01:41 PM. Reason: fixed typos
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclenick View Post
A fellow on TFL and a few other boards known as Slamfire has some declassified studies by the Navy showing samples of new 7.62 NATO ball ammo kept at, IIRC, 140F for six months, produced chamber pressure increases of over 60% and well above proof pressure due to that deterrent breakdown.
The current Norma reloading manual has data on that topic, too. High temps radically decrease 'shelf life,' increasing pressure while velocity goes down. Spherical powder is much worse about this than Norma's extruded, in their tests. I can only speculate as to the source of the spherical; they don't say whether it's General Dynamics' stuff, or Eurenco's, or possibly from some other source. Either way, storing powder or ammo in the garage in southern AZ is NOT a wise plan.
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Old 10-08-2016, 01:34 PM
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I think the reason the sphericals suffer most is because the burn rate control for a spherical powder is all vested in the deterrent penetration of the grain surface, where a stick powder's burn rate is significantly controlled by the number of perforations, which aren't going to change when deterrents on the outer surface are destroyed by acid byproducts of powder breakdown. Second, spherical powders are almost all double-base and the nitroglycerin in double-base powders is intrinsically less stable than nitrocellulose is, so I'd expect it to start experiencing spontaneous molecular breakdown and creating its nitrogenous acid byproducts sooner and at lower temperatures. I've seen at least one declassified British military document saying they stockpile ammunition containing fresh single-base powder for 45 years, but only give 20 years to double-base powders.
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Last edited by unclenick; 10-08-2016 at 01:42 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-05-2017, 01:02 AM
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I also shooting IMR powder that has to be at least 25 Yrs Old, Some of it still not opened as of yet.Never any problems etc.? it's stored in a Dry cool place.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:19 AM
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This problem isn't with IMR powders in general. It is just with specific lots.
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