Inertial Bullet Puller Warning - Page 2 - Shooters Forum
» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > General > Warning Notices and Recalls
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-28-2008, 10:53 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,250

Registered Users do not see the above ad.


I used a Quinetics (sp?) impact bullet puller for more than twenty years and then replaced it with an RCBS that is very similar in construction. My Quinetics has an aluminum handle and the RCBS is all plastic.
Both pullers use large square cut threads on the body and cap. These threads have considerable bearing area and I believe resist the unscrewing action or force applied to the cap in use. If the cap is tightened I have not experience trouble with the cap backing off in use.
__________________
slim
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-28-2008, 12:11 PM
unclenick's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hilliard, Ohio
Posts: 12,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVIVIII View Post
would an o-ring used as lock-washer under the cap prevent it from backing off? Maybe there should be a design change with a locking mechanism?
It might. I also noticed, though, that MtJerry used a regular press shell holder with a press ram extension instead of the shorter flat Autoprime type. I wondered if maybe that kept him from engaging all the cap threads?

My puller is also RCBS and, if I could find it, probably has a square thread or an Acme thread, same as Slim described. I don't know about the Fulton Armory/Midway types? They may just be OEM versions off the same molds, but I don't know?
__________________
Nick
__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

Last edited by unclenick; 09-28-2008 at 01:00 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-28-2008, 12:27 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,250
I just took a lok at the RCBS puller and it does not have square thres like Quinetics puller. The RCBS has round threads on the barrel and the cap is not as tight a fit as it is on the Quinetics puller.
__________________
slim
Reply With Quote
 
  #24  
Old 09-28-2008, 01:04 PM
unclenick's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hilliard, Ohio
Posts: 12,088
I would think the square form would better prevent a flexing cap from jumping threads. I see the Quinetics is still available. It costs more than the cheaper ones, but may be worth it.
__________________
Nick
__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-28-2008, 01:06 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,438
William iorg, I have a Kinetic Corp. puller with a plastic handle, there could be clones available but , by now I thought someone would voluntary share everything they know about shell holders, is has not happened and Unclenick can not find his hammer.

A RCBS shell holder fits the kinetic puller like it was designed for it, it is imposable for the shell holder to contact the primer on a 45 ACP once the nut is installed, the nut can be tightened without slack if a RCBS shell holder is used, if a Lee shell holder is used, there is a small amount of slack, hardware and auto parts stores have 'O' rings to take up the slack, there is safety built into the hand primer shell holder by Lee. Of a Lee shell holder is used on the hand primer by Lee, removing a case with a high primer is difficult if not imposable, the shell holder does a machined slot, If the Lee shell holder is used in the kinetic puller without the slot, for the primer other shell holders have, it is at best difficult to get a shell holder past the protruding primer, RCBS has 9MM shell holders without the primer slot, before someone ask why, consider closing the slide on a cartridge with a high primer, closing the slide will seat the primer if the primer can not move forward, if the case fires, it will be called a 'slam fire' instead of firing by using the slide to seat the primer.

The RCBS has two diameters, the small end of the shell holder centers in the puller nut, there is no room for improvment, still: What did the shell holder have to do with the puller that did all it could do to protect one from one's self.

A shell holder is just a shell holder? There are many things that should be know about shell holders, and the difference between brands.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-28-2008, 01:25 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,438
'the Lee hand primer shell holders do not have a milled primer slot'

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-28-2008, 07:15 PM
scott0116's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclenick View Post
I would think the square form would better prevent a flexing cap from jumping threads. I see the Quinetics is still available. It costs more than the cheaper ones, but may be worth it.
The Quinetics is identical to my older midway puller. I think it is probably the same tool made and sold under the midway trademark. There is the possibility that i put the collet in the thing upside down allowing the cap to loosen but i guess it's something i will never know the answer to. Like i said i have had it for years and have used it many times but there is always a chance i could have slipped the collet over the shell upside down. All i know is that i no longer feel comfortable using this type puller but like you said before if a bullet is down in the case it would be the only way to save the case and get the bullet out. Then again how often do you encounter such an incident of coming across a round with the bullet all the way in the case? And how did it get that way in the first place? and there is really no other safe way of disposing of a round in that condition. Perhaps i will get another impact and only use it and very carefully when i have to.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-28-2008, 08:48 PM
Tom W.'s Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phenix City, Alabama
Posts: 385
While it is unfortunate that the incident occurred, I have been using my Midway Puller for years, with the standard RCBS or Redding shell holders rather than the supplied collets. I have noticed that when I insert the loaded round into the puller and screw the cap on that the primer is always fully visible through the hole in the shell holder, and even when I try to make it touch the holder itself, it will not. I also check the cap after one or two "raps", to make sure that it is still tight.

The first impact puller that I bought from Midway shattered after a few rounds, and I told them about it. They said something to the effect that the plastic in a certain batch wasn't made up correctly, and sent me a new one post haste.

I've always been a bit leery of putting a lot of violent action to a loaded round....
__________________
Tom

μολὼν λαβέ
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-29-2008, 04:23 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,438
Tom W. I like the centering feature of the shell holders in the cap, there is no way the shell holder can contact the primer and if a Lee hand primer shell holder is used the design(no primer milled slot) will discourage using it for cases with high primers.

If the hammer starts to fail, there are warnings, both in the cap and head, by rotating, fractures can been seen when light is reflected off of one side of the fracture or the other, and like you, I had to be convinced everyone pulled bullets in this manner, I purchased 8X57 Turk ammo for .07 cents each, it was corrosive and hot, out of a 29 inch barrel, it was traveling at 2,950 + or -. I called Hornady and discussed it with them, I wanted to get rid of the primers, keep the powder and bullets, I ordered the cam puller, I did not get far before I had to get repair parts, again and again, I had the opportunity to visit Hornady in Neb, and talked to them about the problem with the puller, they told me I made too many mistakes, I could only guess I was not talking to the same person that told me I should have the cam-lock puller for pulling bullets from a batch 800 rounds of Turk ammo. They were busy, Maggie's Schnauzer was hungry and looking for hidden lunches and if they left their desk, they took their lunch with them, now! what do I do when I pull a bullet, use the Hornady with a required caliber specific insert at a cost each or do I use the 'hammer' with a shell holder? For a few bullet pulls, I use the hammer.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-29-2008, 05:01 AM
Rocky Raab's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,321
To recap, for a single round, I'll sometimes just remove the seating die and use pliers in the press. For a half-dozen or so rounds, I use an inertial puller with an RCBS shellholder (and yes, it DOES keep the round perfectly centered and tight). But for any more than that, out comes my RCBS collett puller. It is a bit more time-consuming to tighten the stem each time, but if I need to, I can really clamp down with it.

I never buy surplus military ammo; the alleged savings aren't worth the risk and worry to me. So I've never had to break any of the stuff down. I only pull bullets due to a mistake or a too-hot test batch. Fortunately, neither is all that common.
__________________
To see my books and articles, just Google my name.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-29-2008, 05:03 AM
Kragman71's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newburgh,Orange County,New York
Posts: 2,599
i've been using the shellholders in my inertia bulletpuller for a long time,without any problems.Because these sesions are uneventful,I can't offer any real suggestions as to "why".
This thread is a learning experience for me,with special thanks to Nick for his illustration,and Rocky for his explaination.
It appears that the fault is not the shellholder,but the operator who decided to prime a case that had been filled with powder.
I never tried that.I do remember loading a big batch of 30'06 rounds for a match.One flat of 60 cases were prepared without any primers.I opted to dissemble them before Iinserted the primers.
Frank
__________________
Frank
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-29-2008, 07:31 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Eastern AZ
Posts: 927
Smile

I quit actively posting years ago and have just been lurking in the wings reading. I felt compelled to pipe in on this one.

I agree with Rocky's assertion that the shell holder would not contact the cartridge head/primer. Depending on the shell holder, it may or may not be held rigid in the hammer, but in either case, the cartridge would be slammed against the leading edge at impact.

As far as the use of shell holders in inertial pullers, if they were viable, the companies would have used them. Here is where they are dangerous: The shell holder leaves no means for the cartridge to escape under the pressure of expanding gases. If one uses the supplied collet "thingie", the cartridge is not encapsulated within the hammer and has an avenue of escape should the primer ignite and pressures build within the hammer.

I remember seeing photos many years ago of a detonated inertial puller where the reloader was attempting to disassemble Berdan primed rifle cartridges. The positioning of the Berdan anvil was the culprit in this case. It was strongly recommended to NOT use inertial pullers on Berdan primed cartridges. Just my observations.

Allen
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience, which comes from bad judgement.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-29-2008, 08:07 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,438
Rocky Rab,


"Fguffy,

I'm with you all the way through your second paragraph until the last sentence about the shell holder hole letting the primer blow out. Follow the link in post 1 of this thread and look at the pictures in MtJerry's post #20. The primer did not blow out the hole because the shell holder blocked it. MtJerry's whole point about the risk with the high primer in the puller is the cartridge had enough wiggle room in the plastic puller barrel to slide toward the shell holder's insertion opening far enough so the edge the hole partly covered the high primer.


For anyone not following all this, please examine at the illustration below:"


Rocky Rab, the illustration is very flawed, the shell holder can not contact the primer, the shell holder is centered, the 45 Acp is centered with very little room for movement, a 308 Norma Mag is a perfect fit. I have to disagree with the value of the illustration, I did not have to examine the shell holder for interference, I know it was not a problem when I suggested the use of shell holders, when the cases get as small as the 9MM the fit is very close because the case can and does move in the slot. If Unclenick lived close, I would be happy to bring my shell holders, hammers etc., so we could go over the practice of using shell holders in the hammer, the answer to the question: The shell holder had nothing to do with the case dischrging, my intention was to make 'one' post in regard to pulling pullets with 'the hammer' using shell holders,I would like to think this thread had nothing to with that suggestion.


I went to the range to test fire 6 rifles, 30/06, 7X57, 8/06, 8X57 (all cases for this 4 were military 30/06 cases at .08 cents each, the other rifles were mags in 308 Norma and 300Win, while I was at the range I purchased 20 257 Weatherby cases (.32 cents each) for another rifle, and they separated all of the empty boxes and case holders from the trash cans and gave them to me, for their generosity, I helped them collect and separate, if someone goes to the range and are embarrassed about my effort to get the most use of my time and money, they only go to the range with me once.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-29-2008, 08:21 AM
Rocky Raab's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,321
I agree about the illustration. The cartridge can "slide" far enough to cover the primer ONLY until the holder/cartridge is inserted into the puller and the cap tightened. After that, neither the cartridge nor the holder can shift sideways. That sentence assumes using a standard shellholder with the flanged extension that fits the press ram, and a cartridge of at least a half-inch in diameter. The puller cap almost exactly fits the shellholder extension, and the puller body is only slightly more than cartridge diameter.

If one is using a brand of inertial puller with a larger cap hole, larger puller body diameter, smaller cartridges and/or a non-flanged (Lee Auto-Prime style) shellholder, then some combination of those factors might allow some kind of primer interference. Even then, I cannot envision a scenario where the holder could hit the primer unless the puller is struck on the cap end, due to the direction of the normal impact forces tending to move the cartridge AWAY from the holder.
__________________
To see my books and articles, just Google my name.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-29-2008, 09:55 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,438
Rockey Rab, again, if the Lee shell holder is used the high primer can prevent the case from sliding into the slot, WAY TO GO RICHARD LEE! the Lee shell holder can prevent a case with a high primer from being removed from the hand primer WAY TO GO RICHARD LEE! If someone uses an RCBS shell holder BECAUSE IT HAS MACHINED PRIMER SLOT to defeat Richard Lee's design and uses it in 'the hammer', they could seat the primer without the aid of nothing but the sudden stop at the end of the swing or the primer could could ignite as it seats.

Again, there is not enough difference between the Lee and RCBS to make a difference, an 'O'ring above the Lee shell holder or insertedinto the cap would could down on the rattle but would not have an effect on travling, unless it is a 9MM diameter type case, THEN 'O' rings could be use around the case below the shell holder to center the case.
F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-29-2008, 09:59 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,438
from travling.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:36 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Central Arizona
Posts: 4,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by william iorg View Post
. . . My Quinetics has an aluminum handle and the RCBS is all plastic.
Both pullers use large square cut threads on the body and cap. . .
My RCBS has the square cut threads also but it has an aluminum shank. Obviously RCBS has had different suppliers over the years.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-29-2008, 12:35 PM
Rocky Raab's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,321
Your observation is true enough, Guffey. But I'll still take the RCBS-type holder for its better centering - and simply not use an inertia puller if the cartridge has a high primer.

BOTH problems solved.

I just looked at mine. Square-cut threads, hexagonal aluminum handle shaft, stamped RCBS on the grip - and Quinetics Corp on the cap! So now we know one supplier, huh?
__________________
To see my books and articles, just Google my name.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-29-2008, 01:24 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,438
Rockey Raab, RCBS also make shell holders with out the milled primer slot, one is for the 9MM, I believe there is .009 thousands clearance between the deck of the shell holder and the bottom of the case, if all of this was not about the danger of working with a case with a high primer in a bullet puller, press of slide, it was just a noisy ride.

I have 2 hammers, , another hand loader told one was made in San Antonio, TX,, I started a swing, changed my mind about 2 inches off the floor, the handle bent and the head hit the floor, with a small tap, my friend told me it was a real cheap hammer, I ask him if it was real cheap why didn't the handle bend when I started the swing, he didn't know.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-29-2008, 06:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 24
What's wrong with using the collet supplied? I've never ever felt the need to use a shell holder and can't really see why someone would. My Quinetics has functioned flawlessly for years.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SECURITY WARNING! Putting E-mail Addresses and Serial Numbers In Posts unclenick Trading Post 26 07-19-2016 09:51 PM
Article posted on Precision Shooting Website about Ackley Improved cartridges Kent Wildcat Cartridges 97 11-05-2013 03:02 AM
New 300 RUM on the way recoil junky Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 58 01-25-2010 07:45 AM
Identify this 35 cal. rifle bullet zthang Bullet Casting 5 04-20-2008 07:49 AM
8.16x46R Schuetzen Bullet size rawynn Single-Shot Rifles 2 01-15-2008 04:38 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:42 PM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive - Privacy Statement >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
Privacy Statement | Contact Webmaster
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1