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  #21  
Old 11-16-2016, 03:58 PM
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THIS is very important!! For more than 65 years, Remington has actively hidden and lied about failures in the Walker trigger system. Through the Pollard case which is what we're talking about here, ALL the million plus pages of Remington documents have been published on line in a searchable form.

Here is the CNBC report with some links to the most important of them.
Huge trove of Remington rifle documents is made public

Here is the link to the documents themselves Remington Documents | Remington Rifle Trigger Defect

Last year, I bought a plane ticket the day before the judge postponed the hearing for 15 months....money gone. It could happen again. Just hang fire on any help for now and let's see how this shakes out.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2016, 06:13 PM
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The Federal Court records system is backed up on the Pollard case but a letter sent to the judge and made part of the public record is worth reading. To keep this thread 'pure', I'll post it under 'general discussion'.
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  #23  
Old 11-22-2016, 04:53 PM
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Docket is filling up-

Remington rifle settlement is a 'sham,' critics say

Today, Richard Barber dumped more than half a million pages of exhibits into the Pollard case. His letter of objection is worth reading. There is no man more familiar with what Remington did and what they wrote down than Rich Barber. All the documents are now available but it is a daunting task to find something pertinent just by browsing. Rich connected dots for 16 years and the resulting picture is perfectly clear without ambiguity

He's a hero in my eyes because he never took anybody's word for anything. He dug into the mass of paper bundles without rest until he had the unvarnished truth and told it to the world. He lost his son but made an unlikely friend in Mike Walker. Without him, the 'secrets' would still be secret.
(Chapter 12, "Unsafe by Design")
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Barber Letter-11-16.pdf (427.4 KB, 25 views)
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2016, 08:19 AM
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Doh, just lost 20 minutes of typing!

@jbelk many thanks for keeping us updated on the Pollard action

I read the letter. Very well worth the time

It's something of a Rosetta stone
After reading it, everything I've read about Remington since then has a between the lines subtext especially Stuart Otteson's old rifle magazine piece on the 40xbr and what Mike Walker needed to do to get the action made so it was reasonably true.
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  #25  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:51 AM
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I know the feeling, ICL. Thanks for the effort.

Here is a letter filed with the Court last week from somebody I don't know, but I've heard much the same story from frustrated shooters.

Pardon the format but I had to download as a pdf, print it on paper, redact personal info then scan, crop, contrast enough to read before posting as a jpg.
Attached Thumbnails
Remington Walker Class Action---vigano-letter-1.jpg   Remington Walker Class Action---vigano-letter-2.jpg  
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2017, 07:51 AM
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Just Interesting---

The Court has been taking objections to the objectors by both sides for a couple of months. Remington filed 62 pages of complaints about me and what I've said. This forum played a role and that's all normal. They did the same with Rich Barber's filings and Rich has fired back with his own response. I decided to not respond but will testify the 62 pages of hammering my qualifications by Remington is actually a good exhibit as to why most gunsmiths don't get tangled up with lawyers. Why take the abuse?

Friday, a new filing appeared that could be good news or it could be bad news for gun owners in general. The Massachusetts Attorney General has asked the judge to be heard in the Pollard case even though the time for more filings is long past. This is the same MA AG that has filed suit asking for the customer complaints of Remington and Glock as a "public safety" move viewed by most as anti-gun.
The fox has entered the hen house but there's no flopping and squawking yet.
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  #27  
Old 01-18-2017, 04:30 PM
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Sometimes a feeling of dread becomes relief. Yesterday there was a hit piece by an Outdoor Life writer in Forbes Magazine that painted me, Barber and CNBC with a big green wave of rebuke. At least they spelled my name right.

Then today I learned the judge will accept the AG's brief even though the time to do so is long gone. The Attorney General of Massachusetts was joined by the AG's of The District of Columbia, Maryland, Rhode Island, Maine, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Washington and Hawaii

They have written a powerful document explaining why the laws within those states demands better than the Pollard class action offers.

I strongly suggest reading this document. There are supporting exhibits that I have on my computer and will add if somebody wants them.

Edit to add three more files-
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Amicus-multi-state1-17.pdf (799.3 KB, 17 views)
File Type: pdf Petrie affidavit.pdf (149.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: pdf Bolcome affidavit.pdf (152.6 KB, 25 views)
File Type: pdf Order to allow amicus.pdf (71.9 KB, 25 views)
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Last edited by JBelk; 01-18-2017 at 07:23 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-18-2017, 06:16 PM
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Somebody wants them. Please post & link.
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  #29  
Old 01-18-2017, 06:43 PM
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Yup. What he said.

Thanks JBelk. Now see you put them in edit.
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Last edited by Cheezywan; 01-19-2017 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Wanted to thank Jbelk.
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  #30  
Old 01-20-2017, 07:09 AM
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There are several megs of document exhibits that support the two affidavits shown above that I can download and post if you want. I have to draw the line somewhere because Barber filed about 180,000 pages of those same documents with his letter. As we've found out over the last 20 years of trying to organize these exhibits, there's SO many of them that offer a bit of real, hard evidence that it takes dedication and a really good memory to get your head around them and figure out what few pages says the most of your argument.

Lawyers are page flippers that have a half acre of desk to open the various exhibits that prove the point being made. When you think of the dozens of hours of research to look up and read the various decisions and appeals and re-trials and further appeals suddenly lawyer fees start to make sense.

If you want the exhibits on this brief, speak up.
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  #31  
Old 01-20-2017, 08:54 AM
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I think I'm real clear on the whole thing (and I don't need to be because I do not own a Remington rifle). I understand the mind set of both sides. Seems to be (to me) one of those situations where legal / illegal and right / wrong are not particularly the same thing.

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  #32  
Old 01-23-2017, 03:54 PM
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Hearing is set--

Last time, the order was cancelled at the last minute. I don't have a feeling about this time but expect to find out soon.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HearingOrder1-20-17.pdf (18.4 KB, 14 views)
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  #33  
Old 02-04-2017, 10:02 AM
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Lawyer's Poker--

Here is the 38 page amici brief filed by the AGs of several states. I urge all to read what you can of it, it's onerous lawyer-speak, but they're doing what their state laws require--protecting the public. Of course they see money on the horizon, too. Just like the tobacco settlements.

Here also is the response from the Remington lawyers. This is where it all comes together and shines the bright light of legal 'truth' on the "Remington Problem".

Please read it for yourself.
Remington claims the case is good as it is and the state laws makes no difference because the gun industry is not regulated by anybody. In other words, take a hike, we admit nothing. Take the XMP or nothing.

"I think the evidence is very clear and long lasting: DuPont used the exemptions of the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment to cheapen Remington guns to the point of being dangerous, and then denied fault and liability when that proved to be exactly true."

Page 391 “Unsafe by Design: Forensic Gunsmithing and Firearms Accident Investigations” Jack Belk.
Page 392 explains how it's affected all gun makes.

Documents retrieved using the U.S. Courts PACER system on line.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ami-brief2-1-17.pdf (784.8 KB, 17 views)
File Type: pdf Plaintiffs response to amici-brief.pdf (102.7 KB, 21 views)
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  #34  
Old 02-06-2017, 06:31 AM
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Thanks for linking the amici brief and the Remington legal team's response.

I read the documents over the weekend.

I haven't been following the background to Pollard closely enough to understand it.

Might I be correct in suspecting that it is an action by a tame "class", being heard in a jurisdiction that is very favorable to Remington, in order to get Remington off the hook...?

for having knowingly having sold unsafe rifles between 1948 and the withdrawal of the Walker Trigger and having denied up to the present time that there's any problem.

I can't make sense of it in any other context.

The Remington legal team's response has certainly reinforced my conviction that the only post WW2 Remington that I might ever buy, would be a scrap 720/700/600... With a walker Trigger, for the purpose of giving talks to local shooters about the dangers of the design

After reading that response, I'm of the firm opinion that Remington's current management and owners need to be out of the gun business ASAP

Customer boycott is one way to effect that change, just as it did with S&W, after their owners lobbied for compulsory gun lock laws.
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  #35  
Old 02-06-2017, 07:31 AM
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I am NOT a lawyer, never wanted to be a lawyer, or aspire to be a lawyer now, but I can read plain English and the statements made in the plaintiff's response on pages two through five pretty well proves what I postulated in my book: Remington knowingly used the exemptions afforded by the Second Amendment to make defective guns because they can be made cheaper that way. The government can't force a recall or even an admission. Nobody is watching but the popular press and they were 'bought off' early and often and some STILL protect Remington's lies at the risk of the public safety AND our Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Here's a hit piece in Forbes magazine. Do a little research on the author and find he and Dave Petzal are associated.
Forbes Welcome
The shame of it is, to compete with Remington, other companies had to do the same, hense post '64 Winchesters and good gun companies like Ithaca out of business.
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  #36  
Old 02-08-2017, 03:52 AM
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Trigger upgrade?

I have 2 post 2006 700 bench guns. 2.5 lb triggers. Remington said to bring them to their authorized repair center in NH and they'll put in X Mark Pro triggers with external adjustment for 3-5 lbs. They called me and said come pick them up, their done. One had the new trigger with the adjustment screw,
the lowest it would adjust to was 5.5 lbs. The other had the original trigger with a dot peened on the bolt release and was set at 6 lbs. Talking to the shops gunsmith??? and he said he did what Remington told him to do and the triggers were sealed and if I break the seal I'm totally responsible, not Remington. I won't let them touch my remaining 3 700's. I would have been content if the gunsmith??? set them at the advertised low of 3 lbs or if they could be adjusted within their claimed 3-5 lbs. This may possibly more of a gunsmith??? problem, I don't know... I broke the seals and adjusted them both down to 3 lbs and put locktite on the set screw..... Now I'm the bad guy.
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  #37  
Old 02-08-2017, 07:04 AM
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Wolfe, published a booklet of Stuart Otteson's bench rest actions and triggers articles that had been published in Rifle Magazine, in the 1980s

Some of the articles will download for free from the Rifle site.

In the testing of release weight that Otteson did
The least consistent/most variable pull weights were with the Remington Walker based three lever triggers that left the connector piece free to flop around.

The walker based triggers that had the connector piece fixed to the trigger, were far more consistent, as were the non walker based triggers like the Hart, Canjar, Timney etc.

Otteson actually realised and commented on the difference, and attributed it to the inconsistent position of the connector. Unfortunately he never drew any conclusions about the safety implications of this in the articles.

If people are going to use Remington triggers, rather than the vastly superior bench rest alternatives, that are carefully made from high quality, properly heat treated and ground steel, rather than chromed sintered crap and blankings.

Please get the connector piece properly cleaned, securely epoxied and bolted to the trigger, and the assembly correctly ground to the correct geometry in a proper fixture (not by Bubba, who might as well be performing in a circus, holding triggers between his butt cheeks, as doing it by hand!)
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Last edited by ICL; 02-08-2017 at 07:09 AM.
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  #38  
Old 02-08-2017, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buscadero View Post
I have 2 post 2006 700 bench guns. 2.5 lb triggers. Remington said to bring them to their authorized repair center in NH and they'll put in X Mark Pro triggers with external adjustment for 3-5 lbs. They called me and said come pick them up, their done. One had the new trigger with the adjustment screw,
the lowest it would adjust to was 5.5 lbs. The other had the original trigger with a dot peened on the bolt release and was set at 6 lbs. Talking to the shops gunsmith??? and he said he did what Remington told him to do and the triggers were sealed and if I break the seal I'm totally responsible, not Remington. I won't let them touch my remaining 3 700's. I would have been content if the gunsmith??? set them at the advertised low of 3 lbs or if they could be adjusted within their claimed 3-5 lbs. This may possibly more of a gunsmith??? problem, I don't know... I broke the seals and adjusted them both down to 3 lbs and put locktite on the set screw..... Now I'm the bad guy.
Sounds like the 'repair/replacement' facility is doing everything they can... to encourage you to buy an aftermarket trigger....
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  #39  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:40 PM
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Amici Memo of Reply--

The Attorney's Generals of the several states have fired back at Remington's reply to the amici brief.

I have tickets to fly Monday morning.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Amici-memo of reply 2-8-17.pdf (242.7 KB, 14 views)
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  #40  
Old 02-13-2017, 07:00 AM
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Going to Kansas City, Kansas City here I come.
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