Idle hands in Idaho, are, "------" - Shooters Forum
» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Wildcat Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-06-2011, 08:30 AM
Beartooth Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,072
Idle hands in Idaho, are, "------"

Registered Users do not see the above ad.

My .416 Wildcat project is being temporarily delayed, due to repeated inspections, by the vendors. Oh, well! I'll get really well inspected tooling, that is. The dies and my new barrel are almost to the shipping stages. But what I've entertained myself with this last couple of weeks, may ring a bell in this forum. I did a quicky design of a 1.75" long case, based on my existing Boer 8 wildcat. It looks like I can do this with one or two custom dies from Hornady, using the 300 RCM as it's parent. Forming to my existing taper means that with a stubby one inch long body, I will have .508" at the top of the shoulders. Add in my 16 deg. shoulder, and a neck as least as long as a .270Win. and this stubby case will form a .270 round with some unique properties. I made up a couple of mock ups, by running Ruger basic brass through the first two of my five die custom Boer 8 forming die set. This gives me a $200 head start. Then I cut them off at one inch and sweated the front of a 270 Win. case 1/4 ", into the tapered basics. These 270, and 8mm rounds had bullets already seated, so I then worked them through every rifle in my rack that had any chance of utilizing them. All I can say, is that the aggravation with my 6mm Rem BR disappeared. This stubby case will indeed feed from box magazines. I even got it to control feed up out of a 1905 Ross, 303 Brit.. My daughter's model 7 remmie popped it up, as did my BRNO Boer 8 mil. re-chambered job. My unaltered (feed rails) M-98's, still need some tune ups. Every time I've tried to work with the stubby little 6mm Rem BR, I've had to push a couple of cases back out with a cleaning rod, as one or two, manage to get up ahead of the claw extractor. Not so with this little number. But I chose the .270 bore since doing one in 6mm, would only put it up into the .243 Win. zone. Almost like the old .277 Titus, this little round will be just enough larger at the case head and rim, to retro-fit, into almost any of the oldie military controlled feed numbers that use case designs larger than the 30-06's diameter of .473".
I will try and find an SMLE and see how that one works. So, any Arisaka, Enfleld, Springfield, Mauser, or what not, should be capable of retro fitting , with a bolt face, case head mating, that now keeps the cartridge centered on the bolt face. And any bolt face, set for push pull, std. belted magnums, will also grab this Ruger case head. I either wanted a 6mm Rem BR on steroids, or a 270 Titus, with a longer neck, for rifles that won't work with the std. bolt heads. Like the 6mm Rem and Norma BR variants, this little round will show a split personality. With a 1 in 14 Twist, the sweet spot, on paper, seems to hover around 100-110 gr. spitzers, giving a ton of muzzle energy. With the Norma BR's quicker twist of one in 7 or one in 8", it will be real close to the .256 Mannlicher. I also sweated in an 8x06 case nose, and that works equally well through my bolt actions. This one will give velocities close to the American factory 8mm Mauser loads, when the little guy is steamed up to 270 Win. pressures. So, it will be very close to the 32 Win. Special, in a 24 inch barrel rifle. But my point is; "these will all control feed", unlike my 6mm Rem. BR. But before I run out and re-bore my existing BR, I'm looking at picking up one of the new spoon contoured magazine followers, and try that idea with the bratty little 6mm Rem BR. I feel I need more than one shot, in the field, for any tough critter that's moving out in a hurry. The Titus did this, albeit, with a 130 gr. bullet, in a Savage M-99 lever. But Titus used 1 in 10 twists, IIRC. The BR family though has longer necks, in shorter cases, and loaded up to pretty high pressures for the old rear locking Savage levers. So, all in all, it will remain on my back shelf, until I finish my four variations of the full length .416 Ruger wildcats. But like I titled this thread, "idle hands", and with the new open season on wolves, will give a light short rifle, with this power level, new legs. And for the common std. .473" bolt and lever rifles, the old 277 Titus, may well come back to life. I had a wolf tear past me, back in 1967, up in the Coeur d' Alene Mts., when I was riding a company Honda 90 trail bike. If it had had me on the dinner menu, I would have had no chance, as it swept up from behind me and crossed the bike's path on a diagonal course, about ten feet in front of me. Light recoil, high velocity, as in reduced time in flight, and enough bullet to anchor something that big and tough, puts it well above the 250 Savage/ 243 Win., IMHO. A big herky grey wolf, may slink or lumber around to conserve energy while hunting, but they can move faster than a scalded cat, when jumped. The locals are finding out what my dad knew as a kid, in Northern Minn., that they ain't at all afraid of humans. And making it a whole bunch worse, these recent transplants are sub arctic packs, that number many more than any of the old native Rocky Mt. wolf packs. If these guys think that you're horning in on their trail, they will make it real plain, that you better, "back off, buster"!

These will have to wait until later this year. right now, I'm going full bore, preparing for a May Hunting Trip. My Boer 10.6 may or may not be ready. Too many delays this last year, but it will still be close to being finished. If it's not, then I'll take my LH 270 Win. and L.H. 338 UltraMag..

Last edited by carpooler; 03-27-2012 at 08:54 PM. Reason: subtract photobucket link, per moderator
Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 10:09 AM
Beartooth Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,072
discretion being the better part------

As my plans for a hunting trip and my new .416 wildcat are still on track, I changed it's name for a couple of reasons.
I found that the best conversion is to just run a 375 Ruger case into my .416 baby Rigby die. So all the wildcat cases have 375 Ruger stamped on them. The R.S.A. is picky, so I then changed my cat's name to 10.6 X 375 Ruger. This is engraved on the barrel, and now my wildcat and ammo case head stamps match. Well, sort of!

Anyways, I've been told to keep a low profile, when traveling to there.

Last edited by carpooler; 04-07-2012 at 10:10 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 12:13 PM
nvshooter's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nevada
Posts: 4,505
Originally Posted by carpooler View Post
The R.S.A. is picky . . . Anyways, I've been told to keep a low profile when traveling to there.
Africa must surely hold an intrigue for those who have been once, planting the seeds for a return. I have never been; have no interest to go-- because the R. S. A. is so picky. I fail to see why they need exact headmarkings on the ammo you intend to use. Smells like bureaucratic bullsqueezius to me...
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 10:50 PM
Beartooth Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,072
I think they want factory ammo

NV Shooter, Me thinks that all of my Federal 270Win. ammo with the Barnes 110TTSX's will slide right through. My problems are that I bought my Rem. 338 Ultra Mag cases in plastic envelopes. Remington can't support these with some box stocks, as they don't have any on hand.

Hornady has sent ten box stocks for their largest Cartridges, and either my 338 Ultra, or my .416 wildcat will fit. I used Frankford Arsenal plastic slip fit bottoms to act as separators in these paste board boxes. The 375 H&H class plastic cases fit just fine. Putting on some gummed labels should finish the job. Either the Ultra Mag or the Ruger parented wildcat will have matching head stamps to barrels.
For this forum, wildcats seem to go through, but putting the parent case stamping onto my barrel, ala, 10.6mm x 375 Ruger, is really just for keeping a low profile.

I did think that if I went, I would end up in Botswana, where my wife's nephew and his wife are stationed in the Peace Corps. But he couldn't swing a special deal, and didn't think to send me a list of reputable outfits there. I sure wasn't going to deal with a "pig in a poke" internet special, that far away.

Each country is quite different in their customs import rules. So, it was simpler to just rename my "Boer 10.6mm wildcat". It's going to come down to a week's window, on whether this rifle will be ready. So, I'm out checking my year old zeros on my 270 and 338. Fortunately, I ran about 75 rounds through this 416 wildcat, while it was still in some old military wood.

Using IMR 4064 and Speer 350 gr. Mag Tips, at about 2350fps., I will have plenty of thump. But this runs straight into the 5 kilogram airline ammunition weight limits. With 275 gr. Speers in the 338, I weighed a 20 rd. box right at 33 oz's. (2.1lbs). 1 Kilogram= 2.2lbs. And I was told to keep it down to 10.5 lbs., absolute max. And if asked, just say it is seven lbs., or 3.5 Kilos. Any closer, to the five Kilogram limit, and they might start weighing it out.

I calculated that the 416 bullets will push this up to one kilogram +, per 20 rd. box. So out of an allowable 200 rds. for two rifles, I'm hitting the wall with 60 rds. of light and 60 rds., of heavy ammo. My booking agent thought sixty lights and forty heavys would be about it. But by using the 110 gr. Barnes Federal factory ammunition, they gave me a little breathing room.

I may end up doing 80 L. and 40 H.. But this might be a good place to comment on some of the more outlandish super heavy weight cartridges that are being pushed on this wildcat forum. If each box is pushing two kilos, then one is going to be limited to about fifty rounds for a single, heavy express rifle.

I've noted that a lot of the factory heavies are packed in ten round boxes. So some of you are going to be out scrounging factory ten round boxes for your really big wildcats, just like I've been doing, for the factory twenty round, paste boards, and separators. Anyway, that's about all I can add on this subject.
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 10:32 AM
nvshooter's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nevada
Posts: 4,505

I read every word of your post, carpooler. Makes me glad I only shoot at paper targets in the Nevada desert. I don't need the hassles that those of you who go to Africa have to endure...
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:33 AM
Beartooth Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,072
Ask me when I get back

This is the first time for me too. My travel agent didn't even book me into Afton House, in Jo'berg, since she said I'd still be so wired, I'd keep going till Cape Town. I do get an over nighter at Afton House on the return trip, as she says, that by then, I'll be totally wasted.

It's going to be a heck of a flight, though. Something like 22 hrs.. My local acquaintance who does this more often, uses a two stage flight, using a one day layover in Amsterdam, before going the rest of the way to his Big Five hunts, in Zambia.

The NECG rear sight is windage adjustable only, and is a skeletonized, wide Vee, with a single firelight filament mounted vertically. These guys make up the tallest Express sights that New England Custom Guns sells. They are not listed in the Brownell's Catalog, as they may require custom fitment by G.S.'s. Fortunately, the Brownell's tech., clued me in, and gave me the correct phone number to get through to this specific desk, at NECG.

At least my new .416 Wildcat, (10.6mm x 375 Ruger) rifle is finally ready at my G.S.'s. I'm picking it up tomorrow, and sighting in the new express sights, here, on Friday. These are made as a file it down, front sight,(patridge, or Sourdough bead). the brass insert is full height, so I'll undercut it with a file, or paint it black, only leaving a square bead, after I have it regulated.

I haven't really worked this 10.6mm wildcat up to it's potential yet, so I'll take it along, as a version of the smaller, limited edition Boddington, throated out, 405 Win's. that were sold a few years ago, in the Ruger #1.

If all goes well Friday, I might try and set up some Barnes 300 gr., or 350 gr. TSX's, at about the same speed, as my Speer Mag Tips. You lose 150 Fps. going with copper, but since I have plenty of bullet jump, I just may luck out.

Most of the 95%+ pre inletted gunstocks have such straight combs, made for scopes, that it's getting hard to find, high enough, open sights, for folks with large, and in my case, fat head sizes.

We called in the specs to NECG, over my I Phone, while we measured things on the barrel with a dial caliper over the rear sight position, and with a match stick stuck into the masterpiece front sight band. It was a real mix and match, pardon the pun. But that's how I found out about their extra tall, rear firesight. And whereas their front fire sights are fragile, the rear ones, with the vertical filament, are almost bullet proof. And these are finding homes, on custom built, DG rifles, around the country.

My wildcat rifle is designed to be an "Every man's" redux of the infamous, Military Mauser action 416 Rigbys, made famous by P.H. Harry Selby. My wildcat cartridges, (8mm-10.6mm), fit into the military Mausers a lot better, and will produce about the same power levels as the old factory Rigby ammo does. But just not yet, and not on my first African hunting trip.

Also, with my dimming eyes, the biggest difference, between these two, is that I have a scope setup, that can be detached if need be. So, I also have a low scope, shroud safety, mounted for a left handed person.

Mr. Selby's rifle has no scope, and the rear flip up express sights are on a barrel band, mounted just ahead of the front receiver ring. But I even went so far as to have my Bastogne walnut gunstock, stained to a cherry tint, to match the weathered French Walnut, of Mr. Selby's, original, Rigby rifle.

But we did mask off, and leave unstained, the bottom of the pistol grip, to show off the original Bastogne, veined wood grain. A Gentry banded sling swivel, is also a little different, but serves the exact same purpose. My forearm is longer than the original Rigbys, and every bit of my action is glass bedded, with double cross bolts.

My G.S., doesn't think that I'll ever break or split this stock from recoil, but only time will tell. He did talk me out of putting a matching vanity notch into the right side bolt lug race way, of the front receiver ring, ala the original Rigbys. He felt it might weaken the receiver and let it twist more. I will be loading to higher pressures, later on, so I bit my tongue.

The Colombian 30 cal. Mausers came with the top notch, in the front receiver ring, made for our longer U.S. M 2 spitzer ammo, so I still have one of these two, already.

As my original 8mm Wildcat was supposed to be a simple rechambering job in a military Mauser M-98, I picked a "gawd-awful", expensive way to go about it. A simple 8mm x 338 Win. Mag. would have almost done the same thing. But now using my same GO gauge, and necking up my wildcat to .416, which really is the upper limit, I have created, mostly by accident, a "Baby Rigby".

So since I'm left handed, just like Mr. Selby, I worked up this 'everyman's' version of his famous smoke-pole. The Colombian post WWII M-98 Mausers made in Belgium, by F.N. are the closest I can come to the actions that John Rigby & Co., did in fact use.

Using the factory ammo, these will outlast their barrels. But loading up to higher pressures creates bolt lug abutment, set back. My research on the net has noted that more than half of these thirty odd rifles in .416 have come back to Rigby's repair center. I'm sure that whoever has Mr. Selby's rifle, today, has sworn an oath in their blood, to never, ever, hot rod it.

So now I'll get to see just what a wildcat .416 Rimless Express Cartridge with the original half inch long neck, albeit one that properly fits a M-98 L.R. Mauser will do. Since I have a couple of grains more H2O capacity than the belted 416 Taylor, I'm guessing that I'm right there, if I want to load it up to near max.

My rifle's chamber may not give the max velocities of some Taylors, but since Barnes wants a .050" bullet jump, I'm going to be very close to any Taylors, shooting Barnes' solid copper bullets.

I just got back from the Camas Prairie where I picked up my wildcat rifle and proceeded to regulate it. I have the tallest patridge front sight that NECG sells, and it wasn't tall enough. I was hitting nearly a foot high at 50 yds. So, back to the shop and my G.S. soldered a 1/8th inch piece of metal on top of the front blade. Fortunately, the Masterpiece base lets one remove the blades. So, no problem with the brand new Blue blacking. Back at the range, I still had to play with it to get down to two inches high at fifty yards. But now I can see some front post in the shallow Vee rear. My G.S. had a 6"x8" steel gong, set out at 300yds., and after I was happy at 50yds, he went after that gong with the open sights. His second shot had the exact elevation, but about 3 feet left of the center of the metal plate. He wasn't holding the forearm tight enough, and the torque was wrenching it to the left. For those 350 Gr. Speer Mag Tips to come back down to the line of sight at 300yds., they must peak out at about 125yds..

Even with my brand new prescription shooting glasses, that little swinging metal plate at 300 yds. is really daunting. If I had wanted to play that game, I'd have ordered a three leaf express sight, instead of the fixed rear job. My finished rifle weighs 8 lbs., and nine ounces. Adding four rounds and an aluminum tube scope should bring it right up to 9 lbs.. But the decelerator pad that Richards Microfit, glued onto the semi finished butt, really improved on the old steel butt plate from the military wood I was using to break it in. Half way through a box of twenty rounds, I took off my leather motorcycle jacket, and finished up, shooting in shirtsleeves.

I paid Richards quite a bit extra, to get their old classic, round forearm. With no leather sling to lock my right elbow into, I really do have to use a death grip on this forearm profile. By Friday, I'll be reloaded, and work from fifty to five hundred meters at our range. My case is completely full to the bullet base, with IMR 4064, so no more development work until I return from my hunting trip. Today, there were no pressure signs at all, but up on the cool and breezy, Camas Prairie, it's nothing like South Africa, except that the elevation is the same as where I'm going.

Last edited by carpooler; 04-11-2012 at 08:13 PM. Reason: back from regulating the beast
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Don't shoot them rattlesnakes in Idaho. faucettb My Neck-Of-The-Woods 89 08-12-2016 12:05 AM
Idaho hunting regs, especially muzzleloader definition Terry32shooter Muzzleloaders 10 07-30-2010 07:53 AM
The first legal Idaho wolf kill. faucettb General Discussion 1 05-15-2008 03:51 AM
Grandma's Hands M1894 Cross-Wire 1 01-14-2008 07:48 AM
Grandpa's hands TedH Cross-Wire 1 04-11-2007 05:07 AM

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:05 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive - Privacy Statement >


All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
Privacy Statement | Contact Webmaster
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1