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  #1  
Old 05-10-2017, 07:26 AM
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Winchester 94 .45 Colt question


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Does anyone know the maximum cartridge length that this Carbine will accept in .45 Colt? I just loaded some new trial rounds with 310 & 340 grain lead bullets. The rifle chambers and fires 250-255 grain LSWC & LRNFP bullets without problems.

Thought that I'd ask before I developed a problem with a stuck bullet.

Thanks!
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:01 PM
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Does the ammo chamber without force? Will it fall into place without being pushed? Try a test load without any crimp.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:05 PM
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Besides chambering check if those longer rounds will feed properly.
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  #4  
Old 05-14-2017, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyF View Post
Besides chambering check if those longer rounds will feed properly.
I am trying to determine (if possible) the longest round that will fit and feed. I want to avoid loading a round and have it not properly feed. Removing a round that is too long to feed properly from the tubular magazine may be a real hassle.

Asked is anyone knows a maximum length bullet for the Winchester 94?
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:09 AM
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I think maximum length would depend on bullet profile to ensure proper feeding and ejecting an unfired round. I could be wrong though.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:14 AM
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Thinking you already know, but feed length is critical first. I'd work with a "dummy" for that. Remove the magazine end-cap, spring, and plunger to trial and error that. Keep a couple of pencils or similar around to manipulate things as needed.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:55 AM
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You have the gun and the ammo, and tools so why not check it out for yourself in your gun? I have no use for any bullet heavier than 300 grains.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:50 AM
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One reason to handload is to tailor ammo for your gun. Try it. You'll find out soon enough what works and what doesn't.
Seems like wasted bullet weight in that small of a case, though.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:19 AM
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Hokay! I still need a cup of morning coffee. But here goes. The carrier is what determines what can be used. A M-94 is long enough for the 30-30, but a stop on the carrier, prevents longer cartridges from coming all the way back. Just make sure that you can eject a loaded round, after chambering it' Also, if your carrier is shiny metal, it's a casting. The 45 Colt carriers are really thin, as this case is about the largest diameter, which has been chambered in these Winchesters. "They Break, in half", and that brings the party to an immediate halt. So why do you think you'll need to make your pistol cartridge carbine into a Bear Gun??

A Winchester chambered in the 44 Rem Mag. doesn't have this problem, as it's smaller in diameter. Some early Post 64's in the 44 Mag. would sometimes bend their pressed sheet steel, and welded, carriers, ( blued ), and bind things up. So Winchester went to the cast steel ones. So these don't bend, but in the 45 Colts, they can and do break in half.

Pre 64's used a forged steel carrier, but they weren't chambered in the short pistol cartridges.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:25 AM
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Stamped metal parts in a Model 94 is an abomination before the hallowed memory of John Moses Browning.

If Browning had thought the 45 LC was a good idea, he would have chambered the Model 92 for it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:18 PM
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But, but, and but. Until the Cowboy Action Shooters came along, the 45 Colt never had enough rim protruding from it's case heads, to be extracted by a Lever Action. All of the Colt S.A.A.'s and their replicas, used an ejector which pushed back on the inside of the case heads. The 45 S & W Schofields always did have enough rim, and later the U.S. Army played with an intermediate rim for their Colt New Services, but never for the older Thumb Busters. The larger rims wouldn't fit, unless you only loaded three of the six holes. The New Service ammo was too hot for the old B.P. Colts anyway, so it all worked out.

I had to re-discover that the modern Starline Schofields' rims are the same as the 44-40 Win. So now they both use the RCBS #30 case holders.

My bottom line is that there's a bunch of 45 Colt bullet designs which probably aren't safe in any Tube magazines. They don't automatically come with the Henry Flat Point bullet. Not only that, but a replica Henry, can and has, set off a round in it's magazine tube, when the spring loaded swiveling top of the magazine's tab, gets hung up on the front edge of a loading bench, and then snaps back, down into a column of cartridges. Originally, all Henry's used a R.F. cartridge, which never did this.

The really bad part of this, is that since a true replica Henry Rifle is a big heavy hombre, its some kid and or lady shooter, who is the victim of one of these mag detonations. They can't lift it, that far away from their body, so they drag it back over the loading bench.

The King's improvement, in the Winchesters, did away with the Henry's swiveling loading device, and replaced it with the modern loading gate on the right side of the receiver.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:04 AM
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Thanks to John Kort and Marlin Collector I regularly load the Lyman 457122 and the NEI solid gas check version to 1.600". Our Model 94AE prefers 1.595".

John Kort loads the same bullet to 1.710" OAL.

If you search for 457122 you will pull up the thread.

All .45 Colt chambers are cut large and I shoot the .457122hp unsized and hand lubed.
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Old 06-08-2017, 06:33 AM
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What it comes down to is that each rifle is an individual, and therefore, what will work perfectly on one rifle may not work at all in the next. That is the reason that we say try it in your rifle. We are hesitant to give any exact numbers because your rifle may be different than my rifle.

I have several 45 Colt carbines. I load for the smallest shortest chamber so that the ammo will shoot in all of them rather than having 8 or 10 variations of ammo tailored for individual guns. My loading manuals give the max OAL (most manuals say 1.60) and for me it's a waste of time to try to alter those numbers.
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Last edited by JBledsoe; 06-08-2017 at 06:37 AM.
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