Do an "Archives" search on .22 Hornet and you'll find more info than you really want to know.

My Ruger 77/22 in .22 Hornet dotes on 35 gr Hornady V-Max, 13.0 gr Li'l Gun, CCI 400 BR primers in W-W cases.

 

Personally, I also use CCI 400 BR primers in my .22 Hornet Reloadings in both Remington & Winchester cases with 45-50 grain bullets. I've never tried any bullet weights lighter than 40 grains inwhich I received the poorest 5-shot groupings @ 100 yards in my Ruger Model 77/.22 Hornet & Kimber Model 82 Hornet rifles. I bought a can of 'LilGun powder, but haven't used it yet as I have several rounds loaded with 11.3 grains of WW-680 (No longer produced). When it becomes warmer outdoors I'll try reloads using LilGun powder with 45-50 grain bullets.

More on .22 Hornet Reloading data: http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=12

 

First, welcome to the board, Kevin.

You may have to switch to a blunter bullet. Rugers just aren't compatible with tipped bullets because of the magazine. Your seating issue shows that. Sierra makes a very good Hornet bullet in both 40 and 45 weights. They are blunt enough to seat and feed in your gun.

None of your groups are that bad, really. Single groups in any load combination don't prove much; you can have a random good or bad group with any load. I think that with a bullet change and use of the LFD, you are on the right track.

 

Thanks for the suggestions and the welcome.

I do have some Sierra 45gr. spitzers (Sierra #1310) in the cabinet that I will go ahead and try with the LilGun load. I'll also use the LFD and see if that helps.

How much compression is normal when seating a bullet in the hornet. Seems like there is less of it with the LilGun powder then with the IMR4227. The IMR4227 leaves about .100 free space in the case, and the LilGun there is about .130 free space. I did in fact use the "swirl method" of charging the case with powder, and I can say that it really does make a big difference. I actually did a little test to see how much it actually changed. I filled a hornet case right to the top (measuring spoon level), weighted the charge and it was at 13.7gr., then swirled that powder into the case and topped of the extra space that was left. Weighted the charge again and now it was at 14.2gr., swirled that charge back into the case and it was just about full. WOW, what a difference that makes in small cases. I picked up on that little trick while lurking in the shadow on this forum before joining.

I'll test out the 45.gr loads and get back with the results hopefully soon.

 

I've gotten some wry looks when claiming what swirl charging does. Even with spherical powders like LilGun, it does indeed make a measurable difference.

Try one other little trick, Kevin. Back your sizer die off so that it only sizes about 2/3 to 3/4 of the neck. Leaving that short section of unsized neck helps center the round in the chamber - something that such a tapered little thing isn't usually very good at. It also adds a wee snoogie to case volume and lessens the work-hardening of the case body enough to add case life.

 

Well I just had to do my own little test to see if swirling the charge made any difference. I would suggest that anyone that is wry about it just test it out and they will see.

I normally full length size the brass. Would it be better to neck size only since I only shoot them in one rifle?

I'll try backing off the die and leaving a short section like you explained.

 

Backing off the FL die is what I do. It's called "partial sizing" because the die does touch a small part of the case body as well as the neck. It doesn't work well with cases that have a pronounced shoulder, but works fine with tapered cases like the Hornet.

 

I partial sized 20 cases (enough to still have full neck tension/contact on the seated bullet) and going to give them a go at 13.0, LilGun, 6 1/2, with the 45gr. sp.,factory crimp and possibly with the 40gr. Vmax.
As far as the 40gr Vmax, I went ahead and pushed the bullet out as far as I possibly can in the case. Due to the magazine restriction on the Rugers I was only able to gain .020 in OAL, right now it is at 1.800 OAL. I think this will keep the LFD from crimping on the ogive.. Hopefully be able to get out tomorrow and try the loads out weather permitting of course.

 

Noted you use a small rifle primer in your reloads. Might want to try small pistol primers. When I first started shooting my Martini cadet rifle in 22 hornet....several people including my gunsmith, himself a long time hornet shooter, recommended using small pistol primers for better accuracy. So, I've found my Hornet likes a pistol primer with around 12.3 grs of Li Gun powder using 35 or 45 grain bullets.

 

Okay, I know about long drop tube for loading close to max loads but "Swirl Method"? Lucy, you have some 'splainin' to do.

It's been too cold to shoot much but ti's warming up a bit. and I just found a 77/22 in .22 Hornet soooo.

 

Well I went out to the range today and tried the recently loaded rounds.
All round showed signs of high pressure (flattening Primers).
I loaded 45gr. Speer SPT's,with LilGun 12.3, 12.6, 12.8, 13.0gr., Rem 6 1/2, OAL was 1.745, and Factory Crimp.
Also, 40gr V-max, LilGun 13.0, Rem 6 1/2, OAL 1.800, and Factory Crimp.

The 40gr, V-max load was the same as I shot before, but this time added the Factory Crimp to it, and adjusted the OAL from 1.780 to 1.800..(for crimp not to crimp on the ogive)..had flattened primers and VERY erratic hits on the paper..

45gr. load was new load: even the 12.3gr of LilGun showed flattening of the primers with the Factory Crimp.

So is it possible that with the Factory Crimp it would boost the pressure that much to cause the erratic "pattern" and the flattened primers?

I could not even get a group on the paper, The 40's without the crimp last time shot at about an inch.

I even tried as Rocky suggested with the partial sizing of the case. Well those also should the same signs of pressure. I know that changing to many things at once in not good. So I am going back to where i started and try again but without the crimp. Seems the crimp had alot to do with the high pressures...

I have not tried Small pistol primers yet....The only ones I have on hand are Federal Gold Medal Match Small Pistol. GM100M...


Rocky, Any input to help?

 

You can get really flat primers with really light loads, too. So that by itself is not definitive. Any other problems, like difficulty lifting the bolt?

 

No there was not a noticeable difference in the bolt lift.
The published load for LilGun in the Hornet is 12.0 to 13.0. I am within that load and did not experience any problem when loaded without the Factory crimp.
the only other problem was i couldn't hit the paper at 100 yards....

 

I had a Ruger 22 hornet for over 20 years pretty little gun that I could never get to shoot the way I though it should. I would let shooting buddies have it for years at a time and no one could ever get it to shoot under 3". I swore I would never own another hornet. And then I was offered a little CZ and said what the heck I have a lot of brass and dies what could it hurt I could always use it for trade bait. It would shoot under an inch but still not what I though a cartride as cute as a hornet should be able to do. After weighting every case, neck sizing, reaming the inside of the flash hole, and using small pistol primers I found the sweet spot. The group below is a 5 shot group shot at 100 yards using 13.5 grains of little gun and a 40 grain Serria bullet. In my gun the 1/2 grain extra closed the group up and I do not have any pressure signs.

 

I had a Ruger 22 hornet for over 20 years pretty little gun that I could never get to shoot the way I though it should. I would let shooting buddies have it for years at a time and no one could ever get it to shoot under 3". I swore I would never own another hornet. And then I was offered a little CZ and said what the heck I have a lot of brass and dies what could it hurt I could always use it for trade bait. It would shoot under an inch but still not what I though a cartride as cute as a hornet should be able to do. After weighting every case, neck sizing, reaming the inside of the flash hole, and using small pistol primers I found the sweet spot. The group below is a 5 shot group shot at 100 yards using 13.5 grains of little gun and a 40 grain Serria bullet. In my gun the 1/2 grain extra closed the group up and I do not have any pressure signs.

WOW!! Your .22 Hornet is a real shooter with 100 yard groups that small!!

 

Nice Group Lynn
For the most part my Ruger will shoot around or slightly under an inch, sometimes better. I wanted to try to work up a load with LilGun because I have heard a lot of good things about it. I guess there is a little more working on the load to get it better then what is was before i added the crimp.

I was thinking of Replacing an older savage in Triple Deuce, I've been eyeballing the CZ's..

 

I don't crimp the brass in my Ruger M77/22 Hornet. As Rocky advised, the necks are only sized down about 1/4", just enough to put tension on the bullet. This leaves a slight bulge of unsized neck that helps in seating in the chamber.

The 40 gr V-Max is loaded with 12.0 gr Li'l Gun and 1.765" COAL. A CCI 400 BR primer is used. This load produces groups in the area 0f .750", which for a Hornet, I consider pretty good. Some advocate using the Small Pistol primer, but I haven't found this to matter much. If you're having flattened primers now, the softer cup of a pistol primer will greatly increase this tendency.

 

I think that I am going to refrain from crimping them. I had better luck with the original loads that were shot on the pictured targets at the beginning of the thread. On those groups the 12.0 and 12.3 of lilGun had good groups, they started to open up at 12.6 and 12.8, then 13.0 had them back to about an inch..the OAL on the 40 gr vmax was 1.790 for those groups.. I can play with the OAL and see if that matters, but with seating them deeper the case with be a touch longer and actually stick out a little making a slight shoulder.

What are you getting for velocity with 12.0 and the vmax?
I was only getting 2615fps, with IMR 4227 @ 11.3....was hoping that the LilGun would give me a touch more velocity. But I'll be happy with inch or less.

When I did partial size the cases it was only enough to have tension on the seated bullet. I will try that again but without the crimp. I'm sure the crimp was the reason for the primers being flattened. I have been using the Rem 6 1/2, or i can use CCI400, Fed 205..

Thanks

 

Didn't check velocity on the 40 grainers.

The 35 gr V-Max w/13.0 gr Li'l Gun and BR-4 primers in R-P cases, 1.700" COAL was clocked at 2978 avg fps and .526" groups. For my old eyes and shakey system, that's not bad!

 

I tried some factory HSM 35gr. loads and had ok accuracy with them, again around an inch. The Velocity on those when I check them was 2939 and 2959fps.

When I find some supplier that will ship reloading components to my state i will go ahead and try them also.

 

Went to the range yesterday and tried out the rounds loaded WITHOUT the crimp. Didn't get any better results.
Also had rounds loaded with just a partial sizing. Tried 13.0gr lilGun with 45gr speer SPT. didnt get good results with either of the loads.
I'm going back to 12.0,12.3 lilgun which shot good to start with and see what I get for Velocity with the 40gr V-max.
How temperature sensitive is the LilGun? Shooting temps are in the 30deg range.

I dont know if I have an issue with my reloading scale or not. But the last few reloading sessions I have had a hard time keeping it zero'd. Seems that it is floating when weighting the charge. it'll jump a few tenth's either way and never really setting till I calibrate it again........
Anyone have any issues with an RCBS scale..its an older model 750.
Was thinking of getting the RCBS Powder Master.....Anyone have one? comment or suggestions on powder dispensers?

 

I use a Lyman's balance scale for weighing my powder charges. I've found this type scale to be the best.

 

Kevin204, I just finished loading up a few .22 Hornet (Winchester) cases and used 12.0 grains of lilGun behind a Sierra semi-pointed 45 grain bullet. Since it is very cold outdoors, I set up a quart bottle with a bullseye on it. I fired one shot, out of my Ruger Model 77/Hornet, and it hit it just a bit low but the windage was centered dead on. Now if I were using Remington cases I believe I could place 12.5 grains of lilGun in this brand along with a 45 grainer. If you are using a 35-40 grain bullet you might be able to get 13.0 grains into the case but I'd try 12.0 grains first, as this seems like an accurate load, even though I just fired one shot. When the weather allows, I'll fire for accuracy using 5-shots and a regular target. I am using open sights which I had installed on my Ruger Hornet last fall. OH! forgot to mention, I used CCI Bench Rest SR primers.

 

Thanks Davers, If you look back at the start of the thread with the pictured targets, you'll see that i tried 12.0 and 12.3 of lilgun. they actually shot pretty good. So after the last range session, I went and loaded up some more at 12.0, 12.3, 12.5...going to see how they shoot this week hopefully. if they shoot as good as before then going to try them over the Chrono and see what get for Speed.

 

A digital scale that "dithers" a tenth or so above and below is usually caused by air currents, and it is no different from a beam scale that "bobs" a bit for the same reason. Just take an "eyeball average" and press on.

 

Rocky, I never really had any problems before with the scale and drifting from air currents. Reloading room isnt drafty, temps in the room are mid 60's when reloading. I got a low battery the other day and replaced it with a new one. Ever since then it has been acting funny. Sometimes going off by .5gr. and in a small case like the hornet that is quite a bit. I just bought an RCBS 502 scale, hopefully it'll be in this week and i can double check the electronic scale with it. Its always good to have 2 scales anyways.

 

Several years ago I had a RCBS electronic scale inwhich I just received two months of use before it died. What happen is I was using it to weigh out charges and we had a "Power Surge" with proptly fried my scale! I called RCBS to see what they could do if I sent it in to them. The nice lady I spoke to said it would cost more to fix than to just buy another one. SOOO...if anyone plans to use an electronic scale it would be wise to use a power surge suppressor OR a battery powered one. I just went back to the old reliable balance scale made by Lyman.

 

Good advice. An old computer UPS will have the side benefit of filtering the power and getting rid of interference.

Lithium batteries will last longer, but don't forget to use check weights each time you fire up the electronic scale.... plugged in or not.

 

Lynn on post #15 and a mighty nice group said it-- SMALL PISTOL primers. Try em, you may be surprised.