ODF,

The 338-'06 A-Square cartridge has been standardized and recognized by SAAMI; it's not a wildcat any more!

It's an excellent cartridge and since it's never been chambered for weaker rifles, has a higher operating pressure than the parent round. There isn't much on this continent you couldn't kill with it, that's for sure. It's not far behind the long-admired 338WM. Also, H4895 is a very good powder choice for it, and that makes loading it down for less recoil is a breeze.

I'm sure you could get standard dies for it quite easily and then it's just a matter of necking up '06 cases or necking down 35 Whelen. Good luck if ya get one!

 

The 338-'06 A-Square cartridge has been standardized and recognized by SAAMI; it's not a wildcat any more!

The A-Square version does have different case dimensions than the basic wildcat version. IIRC, dies need to be compatible with the A-Square version.

 

Not sure how old the reloading manual you're looking at is, but more modern ones, plus factory ammo loaded for both with give the edge to the Whelen in just about any bullet weight at any reasonable ranges. However, that advantage is certainly not enough to matter to any game animal taken at those same reasonable ranges.

The 338/06 is a very fine round without a doubt, but if you're still "deciding", I'd at least suggest you also look at the Whelen where factory loaded fodder, such as a 200gr bullet at 2900 FPS, 225gr bullet at 2750 FPS and 250gr at 2550 FPS are all readily available as well as is properly headstamped brass. A box of Hornady factory loaded 200gr @ 2900 FPS costs under $30 online at many outlets. Ammo for the Whelen is also readily available in weights from 180gr to 310 gr.

Again, both cartridges are great performers and the choice between them is an individual one. Either one will handily outperform the parent 30/06 and either one also comes quite close to the great 338 WM as well. So, have a look at what's available and buy the one that suits your fancy!

Nosler Custom Ammunition P5

Nosler Custom Ammunition P6

 

Tri is correct, in that the 35 Whalen was standardized at a lower breech pressure than the now standardized A-Square round. This is also true of the parent 30-06 cartridge, which was set at 50,000psi way back in 1906. What a number the 30-06 would be at 55,000!

 

338.06 A Square



What a number it is at 60,000! This is why, hand loaded, it outperforms the .270 Win with identical barrel lengths.

Getting back to the subject matter, as most experiences gun savants have stated, when two cartridges are close in performance, the advantage always goes to the larger diameter. Go with the .35 Whelen!

PS: Whomever provides your barrel work can certainly set you up with the dies. Most competent gunsmiths will use the same reamer.

 

"Wanna take a ride?"

If one is willing to risk sparse brass availability, and merely buy factory ammo, then the short 338 RCM, already has these bases covered. I presently, only have the 300 RCM with a 20 inch barrel, but the advert. blurbs seem to ring true. The 185 GMX will be as long as the 200 gr. Super Performance bullet, and knock the cr#p out of anything down here in the lower 48. The lack of muzzle blast, in my 300 RCM is weird, but I'm not complaining.

A 338 x 350 Rem. Mag. will be the closest you could come to this, and I doubt it would perform nearly as well. The 338 RCM is a 30-06 Capacity case, just like the 350 Rem Mag. So loading 250+ gr. .338 Spitzer bullets will cut things down ballistically, as in any short mag. in a short action. The 300 RCM, in my R-77, isn't all that light, either. But its balanced fairly well, and handier than my M-98 Mauser rifles, chambered for both short and long Ruger Magnum based wildcat cartridges. In fact, my little R-77 weighs and balances almost as good as my M-98 with a bobbed to 23", military stepped barrel, in a Ramline composite stock.

I've kept my 8mm x 06 as a 26 inch barreled version, and it feels and handles, more like a Factory magnum sporter. It came out of the Ramline to make room for the 375 Ruger, and RCM Wildcatted barreled actions.

But if you make your 338 x 06 or 35 Whelen up on a long commercial action, then you could also go up to the 340 or 360 Weatherbys, and blow all of these others into the bushes. Wildcats based on the Remington Big Eight Magnum will do just about the same.

I feel it will all come down to how heavy of a smoke pole you want to pack around all day. Not to mention, how much case forming work you want to do, before you can get into the field. So my vote here, is for the 35 Whelen in a commercial long action. After nearly a century, Col. Whelen, was such a pragmatist, that his namesake still stands tall, indeed.

 

If one is willing to risk sparse brass availability, and merely buy factory ammo, then the short 338 RCM, already has these bases covered. I presently, only have the 300 RCM with a 20 inch barrel, but the advert. blurbs seem to ring true. The 185 GMX will be as long as the 200 gr. Super Performance bullet, and knock the cr#p out of anything down here in the lower 48. The lack of muzzle blast, in my 300 RCM is weird, but I'm not complaining.

A 338 x 350 Rem. Mag. will be the closest you could come to this, and I doubt it would perform nearly as well. The 338 RCM is a 30-06 Capacity case, just like the 350 Rem Mag. So loading 250+ gr. .338 Spitzer bullets will cut things down ballistically, as in any short mag. in a short action. The 300 RCM, in my R-77, isn't all that light, either. But its balanced fairly well, and handier than my M-98 Mauser rifles, chambered for both short and long Ruger Magnum based wildcat cartridges. In fact, my little R-77 weighs and balances almost as good as my M-98 with a bobbed to 23", military stepped barrel, in a Ramline composite stock.

I've kept my 8mm x 06 as a 26 inch barreled version, and it feels and handles, more like a Factory magnum sporter. It came out of the Ramline to make room for the 375 Ruger, and RCM Wildcatted barreled actions.

But if you make your 338 x 06 or 35 Whelen up on a long commercial action, then you could also go up to the 340 or 360 Weatherbys, and blow all of these others into the bushes. Wildcats based on the Remington Big Eight Magnum will do just about the same.

I feel it will all come down to how heavy of a smoke pole you want to pack around all day. Not to mention, how much case forming work you want to do, before you can get into the field. So my vote here, is for the 35 Whelen in a commercial long action. After nearly a century, Col. Whelen, was such a pragmatist, that his namesake still stands tall, indeed.

I saw your post the other day and meant to comment on it, but must have gotten sidetracked. I also own a .300RCM and after getting it and some input from a Buddy who owned he same rifle in .338RCM, I couldn't help but add a .338 RCM to the cabinet as well. I've read a LOT about muzzle blast and velocity losses on forums such as this one concerning these two new cartridges. Obviously most (all??) were written by those who had never fired or choreographed one or the other.

I'm also surprised at the lack of "drama" associated with shooting both and have taken a distinct liking to the power, size and portability of both. What's not to like with a carbine sized rifle that maintains it's velocity and power with the abbreviated tube. I shot my 338 RCM back to back with my similar Ruger in 338 Fed and could not feel a difference. Neither, shooting 200gr loads feels much (any?) different to my shoulder than does a light-medium weight '06 with 180gr loads. If you ever get a chance, jump on a 338 RCM and I'm sure you'll like it.

Here's a Great article with loads up to a 275gr in 338 RCM at up to 2400 FPS! 20" tube!!

Real Guns - Ruger's M77 Hawkeye Compact Magnum

 

Would I get a set of dies with out much fuss, I'm presumeing custom made.
Good ol 30.06 cases are no problem.

Thanks guys, ODF.

I got a standard set from RCBS some years ago. The current A-Square cartridge is just the commercialized 338-06 wildcat. I don't think there's any difference.

Great cartridge. I still have some Hornady 225 spire points from the original 5 boxes of bullets I bought when I lived in Colorado. I'm sure there are better bullets out there now.

 

Thanks for your input guys, it is much appreciated.

I do have a 35 Wh x 7600 Remington, and yes its a real knock down rifle no doubt about that,
it's just a whim probably, but I have the opportunity to pick up a reasonably cheap 30.06 in a Rem 700 action with a nice stock, and thought I could see myself building something up in the .06 family. I do already own a 30.06, so something a little different maybe.
I would prefer the 35wh to be a bolt action, and the Pump to be 30.06, but hey, thems the cards I was dealt.
So now I decide on my future............... Thanks.

 

The dies I have from RCBS are tagged just '338-06 FL Size Die', with no reference to A-square. I don't know if there is a difference where one won't chamber in the other.

Good cartridge, IMO. I use 215 gr Sierra's in my favorite load.

 

I have the A-Square version and the RCBS dies work fine. Have been using them for over 7 years. Dies from a few companies should be no problem to get. I have had good luck with Hornady 225 spire points. I also have a Whelen and a 350 Rem Mag and see no difference in performance between the 3.

 

I don't have such a rifle, but the .338-06 has a lot going for it.

Except factory loaded ammo and off the shelf rifles... neither of these thing bother me one bit.

If I were starting from scratch I would choose a .338-06.

What the .338-06 will do is send high-BC (just about all .338 hunting bullets have a BC of 0.4 or higher, and several are over 0.5) 225gr bullet out past where most people have the ability to shoot and still have a foot-ton of energy left when it gets there (400 yards) and still be going ~2000 fps.

What does this mean? Big game bullets are designed to expand at certain velocities. At 2000fps you can expect them all to work. And with 2000fpe and a mass of 200-250 grains you can expect to get adequate penetration.

Without resorting to a magnum or a magnum length action.

Not to detract from the .35 Whelen... but the .338 will shoot a bit flatter in the ballistic simulations I have run.

 

Build the 338-06!
I have one on a Savage action, Shilen barrel. it requires less powder than my 30-06, shoots very well and has a ton of thump.

 

Thanx for the confirmation

Tn Hunter, thank you. While I only purchased my R-77 to use as a donor rifle, my Noseeum dies and the Hornady production schedule for 300 RCM brass, means it will stay stock for a while. I don't like plugging something which I haven't yet chrono'd. That will happen on my next trip out to the Range. I want to prove to myself, just how much loss there is between the two different Hornady 150 gr. factory loads.

I have to wonder if this powder mixing tech would even work in an over bored case. The next trip up on the Prairie, will be to change out my 7mm VampKat barrel for a new 8mm Vampkat. Both of these are old military Mauser barrels with two threads trimmed off the barrel stubs, and re-chambered as 2R jobs, by cleaning up the old shoulders.

Ergo, I have not been able to work around that three inches of barrel discrepancy, which Layne Simpson wrote about back in 2005. This has been painfully obvious in my 7mm VampKat, with its 23.5 inch barrel. I should have equaled the Rem.7mm SAUM, when I seated my 175 gr. semi spitzers out to the limit of my M-98's magazine. Instead, I am sucking hind T#$%t, and flattening primers out to where they look like rivet heads.

The real rub is that further re-chambering it to the Remington 7mm SAUM, won't do anything more, and would cause me to butcher my M-98's feed rails. I haven't got anything more than the 284 Win., chambered in a commercial barrel, with the sporting chamber's neck and throat.

My existing PT&G reamer has a lot of taper and a gentler 26 degree shoulder, but I can make up a .300 with it in another 2R chamber, and rework the factory ammo for this. And I'll test this idea out over the chrono the next trip out, also. On paper, Hornady says this is 238 fps., because their GMX bullets are longer for weight, and take up some of the powder space.

I will have to trim back 1mm (.94mm), in my fired cases and then pull the bullet and powder out of the factory loaded stuff, and exchange it. If this works I'll have my G.S. deepen my Ruger R-77 chamber's neck, by that same 1mm, and then we're off to the races. My tapered cases will simply blow back out to the factory's chamber, and my wildcatted 300 will work normally. This donor rifle is destined to become a 243 VampKat, sometime next Spring.

But I can't go ahead, until I get my real reloading dies, so I can see which twist barrel I will have to order from Ms.Carol Hart. If I can't get good groups with 100 gr. flat based spitzers, from my test bed 1 in 14 Shilen, then she says she can fix me up with a little quicker 1 in 13 twist.

I'd appreciate your input, if you can visualize a fluted 24 or 25 inch barrel mounted in your own RCM, R-77s. I think Ruger stuck with their standard forearms and only clipped off the barrels to 20 inches. The other Ruger Bug Bear is that these RCM's have to tip down to feed. This means you can't put the extra round in their magazines.

I haven't run into this problem with my VampKat's tapered cases running through my M-98's own CRF. So I get an extra round ( 3 ), in my Mauser's magazines. If I have to put an animal down at 500 yards, especially if he tries to get back up, four magnum rounds beats three, IMO.

FWIW, my G.S. did a $45 trigger job on my new Ruger Compact Rifle, and now it breaks right at 2.7 lbs. with no creep. This added at least 100 - 200 yards to any shot which I would question, at a standing and unaware Big Game animal, out here.

My Mausers get Timney's for this same reason, plus they can be matched to these custom Ruger trigger jobs, for "wheels up" hunting trips, where you leave nothing to chance.

 

I am on my 2nd 338-06 I had it built on a Mauser 98 action. I plan on using it here in Montana next year for Elk if I have to go into the thick stuff after them.I have been surprised at how good it shoots.I plan on using the 210 Nosler or the 225 Barnes.I worked up the loads using a 6X scope but will hunt with an old 2 1/2 power Redfield Bear Cub with a post reticle.
I have owned a couple of 35 Whelen's and I like it also,so it is really a personal choice,there really is not much difference.

 

I am a proud .338-06 owner and love the caliber. Made mine on a Savage action and a Brown barrel and it
shoots Hornady 225gr into a honest 1" group. hits like Thor's hammer but won't kick you into the next county.

 

Is there anyone with an AI version of the .338-06? I am waiting on a barrel in this chambering and would like to have a couple of firefromed cases to check headspace with. I am going to get a go gauge from Dave Manson, but would really like to ahve a couple of pieces of fireformed brass as well.

 

Worriedman--

Somebody else's fire-formed brass is not going to do you much good unless you have an over-sized chamber.
Use a headspace gauge to check headspace and make your own fire-formed brass would be my suggestion.

 

I have a go gauge on order, I was just hoping to measure some cases. AI needs to be a little shorter than standard chambers by .004-.006, was wanting to get a look with calipers...

 

Worriedman-- I do a LOT of improved chambers from scratch. Are you chambering a barrel or having a barrel installed or installing yourself or what?

There are two ways of using a GO gauge. Are you SETTING headspace or CHECKING headspace?

Edit to ask---Are you getting a "338-06 AI" GO gauge or a "270-30-06" GO gauge? They will be different and Dave would have to tell you how. FWIW, I use a standard 270-'06 GO.

 

I have a Savage barrel on order from Pac Nor in .338-06 AI. I intend to put the rifle together myself. I have left a message for Dave Manson to order an AI go gauge from him. I will try to speak with him this week. Reading his "Useful information" he stresses that one should use a shortened by .004-.006 go gauge from the standard chamber, and that the standard chambering go gauge would them become the No go gauge. Do I understand it correctly.

 

he stresses that one should use a shortened by .004-.006 go gauge from the standard chamber, and that the standard chambering go gauge would them become the No go gauge. Do I understand it correctly.

That's correct, but remember he's selling gauges! All you really need is one standard GO gauge to make any gauge you want from. That gauge is "STANDARD GO"

Put the gauge in the (clean!) chamber and measure carefully and to the .001 how much it sticks out of the chamber. Measure it at least four times at the SAME measurement before you believe it.

Then compare that "stick out" to a new, freshly made case by FL die seated ON the shellholder HARD. It will be some shorter than the GO gauge. How much shorter? Maybe .007, just to throw out a figure. That means THAT case is MINUS .007 to the standard GO gauge and just about perfect for an AI GO gauge, but keep going and get a perfect one like this--.

If the new, sized .338-06 is shorter than the GO gauge by say .015" and you'd really like to have .005, which I consider perfect, use common "Feeler Gauges" to back the FL die off the shell holder by .010. Just stick the gauge on the shell holder and keep adjust the die down until you feel the 'lump' of the handle hitting bottom. (Taking out mechanical slack doesn't take a stupid gorilla. The object is to take OUT slack, not create WEAR.

HAMMER THE NECKS closed on cases that aren't perfect and keep making 'gauge cases' until you get one exactly right and mark it so you don't get confused.

Now you have a dedicated .338-06 Ackley Improved GO gauge that is -.005 to a standard chamber and you also know how much space you have between Zero and +.010 headspace....which is TOO much!!

It is also unhandy to have a gorilla squash your brand new GO gauge by forcing the bolt closed, too. (You CAN NOT re-size a hardened steel headspace gauge but you can re-size one made out of a piece of brass in two test. To make the gauge permanent and re-size resistant pour it full of hot sulfur.

You should have a little 'feel' on closing the bolt (that is TOTALLY stripped of ALL parts) on the gauge, but certainly should NOT have to use the heel of your hand to close it. If it can't be done with thumb and two fingers, it's too tight.

IF you're using the gauge to set headspace by reaming a chamber, instead of a jam nut system, you'd simply chamber until the standard GO gauge was .005 further OUT of the chamber than calculated and measured.

ie The M-98 usually has .103" stickout (.105 measured, minus .002 for 'fit right') on standard GO gauge. With an AI chamber, you're finished with .108 stickout.

 

Thank you so much for the explanation sir!

I intend to use some .35 Whelen brass necked down as my workup brass. I have dies (Redding .338-06 AI) and an expander from K&M on the way. They will be here long before the barrel. I have tools to gather, and I am about the business of gathering information as well.

 

I read JBelk's post about creating a headspace gauge from a piece of brass. I did pretty much the same for my .358-caliber mildcat. I had problems with flat primers on low-end loads. Turned out the brass had the shoulder too far down the case when the die was set at 0.0025 inches above the shell-holder. The case was moving rearward upon firing, causing the flat primers. What I did was to form cases with the die set 0.003, 0.0035 and 0.004 inches above the shell-holder. There was no "crush" on the bolt (striker removed) until I tried the brass formed with the die at 0.004 inches above the shell-holder. The crush is very light, so I know I'm not galling the lugs. I no longer get flat primers because the case does not move forward when the firing pin hits it, and backward when the powder ignites and burns.

 

For many years prior the the .338 Win, I shot the 338-06, 338-06 IMP, and same for the 35 Whelen..I would argue that saying one is better than the other can only be based on false prejudice but I think I like the 338-06 IMP the best, but not my much..

I probably bought the first .338 win. in Texas and I still see it as the best elk, Moose and bear rifle for the larger animals, It will do it all, and Ive had outstanding results with it in Africa as well..Its the best all around rifle I have used along with the 358 Norma and the 375 H&H or Ruger...The day of the o6 cased wildcats have come and gone IMO..besides the standard 30-06 can't be improved, its perfect just as it stands, a 200 gr. Nosler partition at 2700 FPS will kill any animal on the NA continent..I wouldn't be without one., but I have two.