[oneoldsap]

OK, educate me. I believe that to obtain accuracy at 358 Winchester velocities of 2300+ fps requires only the very hardest alloys, bullets which will certainly not expand and hold together but will sometimes shatter into bits and more often bore straight through like an FMJ. I have never doubted that cast bullets can be reliable killers in big calibers like .44 Mag and .45/70 where bullet expansion is really not required but I think .35 caliber is a bit small for reliable results with a non-expanding bullet. I am not a great tracker and I hate to lose a crippled animal so I prefer to stick with know reliable expanding bullets. I skimp by on a very limited budget but for the number of bullets I fire from a hunting rifle I can afford the best and I believe that in .358 Winchester that means a jacketed bullet. I do not believe experience with big bore low velocity loads translates at all into results with .358 Winchester full velocity loads.

I totally agree with you , especially about the Speer 220 . My .358 loves them and they are reliable killers of game !

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Oh I'm a fan of lead bullets, I mostly hunt with muzzleloaders, but there again we're talking large calibers, firing soft lead bullets which expand even larger on impact. I'm also a fan of moderatly high velocity, 2600-3000 fps, love my 6.5x55. A good jacketed bullet at those speeds will shoot flat enough for a point of aim out to 250 yards which is about as far as I feel qualified to make a shot under best of conditions. If I were hunting only timber I'd be happy with a .44 mag carbine, firing the 240 grain hard cast semi-wadcutter at anything over 1400 fps. But I hunt a lot of open country where I do want at least 200 yard capability and that dictates 2200+ fps.

 

[MikeG]

OK, educate me. I believe that to obtain accuracy at 358 Winchester velocities of 2300+ fps requires only the very hardest alloys, bullets which will certainly not expand and hold together but will sometimes shatter into bits and more often bore straight through like an FMJ. I have never doubted that cast bullets can be reliable killers in big calibers like .44 Mag and .45/70 where bullet expansion is really not required but I think .35 caliber is a bit small for reliable results with a non-expanding bullet. I am not a great tracker and I hate to lose a crippled animal so I prefer to stick with know reliable expanding bullets. I skimp by on a very limited budget but for the number of bullets I fire from a hunting rifle I can afford the best and I believe that in .358 Winchester that means a jacketed bullet. I do not believe experience with big bore low velocity loads translates at all into results with .358 Winchester full velocity loads.

Joe,

I'm running my .35 Rem right at 2,300fps with one of the Beartooth bullets. Expansion isn't an issue because it's not required with the flat nose. They leave a tremendous wound channel with no expansion. I know that's hard to believe but it's true.

I know that folks are running the Beartooth bullets faster than that. I just can't go any faster in the .35 Rem with the powders I have and I'm not sure I could go any faster with any powders. You should be able to run 2,400 - 2,500fps, I would think, in the .358 with no trouble with good bullets that fit the bore.

Anyway here was the result of my Marlin's first venture in the field with cast bullets. Pig ran about 8 steps with blood pouring out of both holes. Very impressive performance.

 

[William Iorg]

OK, educate me..

If you have a yahoo groups account go to CB-Book. Go to the files section and download the book; Cast Bullets For Beginner and Expert.
The book is free and you will learn far more than you ever will on an open forum.

CB-BOOK : CAST BULLETS FOR BEGINNER AND EXPERT

Then join the Cast Bullet Association forum. Later you may wish to join the Cast Bullet Association.

The Cast Bullet Association Inc. Forum

The 200-grain RCBS gas check bullet will perform well at between 2,100- and 2,200 fps in the 358 Model 99 Savage and the 356 Winchester M-94AE. The book linked above will help you get there.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Oh no you don't William, I know that cast bullets can become an interesting hobby in itself but I already have more hobbies than I can afford and you won't sucker me into another one.

 

[William Iorg]

Well, reading is free!
John Linebaugh, John Taffin and a few others have written the best cast bullet velocity for hunting handguns is between 1,200 - 1,400 fps. Penetration of cast bullets surprises many shooters.
Discussing which bullet diameter will accept the highest velocities with the least amount of work would make an interesting thread. I would say .35, .44 and .45 but others may have different thoughts.
The .35’s with a water capacity between 45.0 and 60.0 grains of water (with bullet seated) are very easy to load.

 

[hipshot1]

I've killed antelope and elk with cast bullets. They are reliable killers if used within the range limitations of the cartridge. If I choose to hunt with cast bullets, I try to get within at least 100 yards; not that they won't kill beyond that range. It's just a distance at which I feel confident. The rifles I use (444 Marlin and 35 Remington) are at least as accurate with cast as with jacketed bullets.

Would like to know about your loads on both calibers....bullets & powder.
Thanks,
Hipshot1

 

[gomerdog]

With the 35 Rem. I used 200 gr. BTBWFN bullet and H4895 powder. With the 444 , I used 250 gr. BTBLFN bullets with H4895 on antelope and 300 gr. Cast Performance WFN on elk with H335 powder. Here are a couple of pics: one an antelope with a 35 Rem. and a calf elk with 444 Marlin.

 

[Chris Cash]

The Beartooth 210 gr. LFNGC works well in my 356 Winchester and has a generous meplat. I believe with my Imr 4320 and H4895 loads it does 2100 fps or more. I am more of a shooter than a hunter, but that did bullet penetrate the gristle plate/ shoulder of a good sized boar hog, destroyed the shoulder, heart and exited through the gristle plate on the other side where it dug a good sized crater out of the earth before sailing off to parts unknown. It was mighty impressive! Leading is just a light frost....a few brush passes and some wet/dry patches and your done. I have not played with it much at longer ranges than 100 yards. I carried it for Elk and felt confidant at the ranges I shoot at, but have not connected on one yet. The RCBS 200 gr. Shoots well, but I like the flatter point for hunting.

 

[William Iorg]

An old thread but a good topic. Hi Chris.

 

[Chris Cash]

An old thread but a good topic. Hi Chris.

Yes Indeed Slim. I noticed the old date but a subject worthy repeating. It is still a superb cartridge/rifle combo that will get the job done, with a touch of class. Had I not had your mentorship in the beginning I might have missed the boat on the rifles potential. Thank you my friend!

 

[William Iorg]

Your pretty smart, you would got there eventually!
The .356/.358's are one of those cartridges which seem equally hapy with cast or jacketedbullets and extruded or ball powder.
Easy to make .356 or .358 brass. You can have a lot of fun to reloading the cartridges.
I am looking at having the Remington Model 7 in .260 rebarreled to .358. Barrel length discussions are slowing the decision.

 

[Tnhunter]

Model Seven in .358 will be extra special nice! My opinion on barrel length (maybe worth less than what it's costing you) is that 20" would be perfect. I've owned several Model Sevens ( and 673s) and the 22" on my .308 & .350 RM is a tad too long for my "woods" rifle prefernce. I have a very nice M77 in .358, but I wish it's 22" tube was 20.

Good luck with it and please show us a picture of the finished project!

 

[CharlesB]

I'm with CoyoteJoe on this.

Cast bullets have their time, place, and use. Experimenting on game animals at extended ranges is not one of those.

Hunting is not cheap these days, and neither are the rifles used. If you are suddenly too cheap to use premium quality ammunition on a hunt, but want to experiment on a game animal instead with something cheaper that is kind of marginal, maybe it would be better to just stay at home.

- Or you could just stick with closer shots. Lots of game have been cleanly taken with cast boolets, but trying to push the limits of long range shooting with them is dunderheaded, to say the least.

Give the game animal a break... Use something that you KNOW will put him down quickly and cleanly.

If you feel that you just can't possibly afford high-quality ammunition, at least be considerate enough to hunt your way up close for a certain shot.

 

[MikeG]

I'm with William, except where he is cutting up perfectly good .30-06 cases

Cast bullets in the .35 cals are a match made in heaven. My .35 Rem will shoot very, very well with the Beartooth 180gr. "+p" handgun bullet, upwards of 2,300fps. Another good bullet is the RCBS 205 (?) gr. gas checked design. I have shot some of those in my .35 as well.

The wound channel with the Beartooth bullet is impressive to say the least. Cast bullets give up nothing to jacketed in the .35 Rem, and that is saying a lot, as the 200gr. Rem Core-Lokt factory load is a very good performer in the field (just not always the most accurate on target).

This pig ran all of 8 (eight!) steps after taking a Beartooth 180gr. cast bullet at about 90 yards, with blood pouring out of both sides. Very impressive.

 

[Chris Cash]

Some interesting bullet discussion/pics here. His lead is fairly soft compared to the Beartooth bullets. I really don't know how the btb 210 would act at 200 yards with a Bhn of 22. The added velocity potential of the 358/356 Win. would aid in expansion, I'm thinking. I shoot hunting peep sights and limit myself to 100 because that's where I'm more confident. But the discussion is interesting for sure. .35 Remington Reloaded Bullet Performance - Part 2 - Page 2 - 336 Marlin.

 

[white eagle]

I know this is an old thread but I found it while doing a search and thought that I would ad some up to date info on pushing a cast boolit
gas checks are always used and in vogue of late is powder coating cast boolits
not only can you push your boolit faster but PC also virtually eliminates any leading in the barrel
there are many ways to apply PC some expensive and some cheap (I like cheap) so if you have the inclination give it a try

 

[powdr]

I've got almost 300 .359 150gr lead w/gas check bullets for sale. Should get about 2900 from a .358. powdr

 

[twodot]

With almost 100 thousand threads started by over 50,000 members I can't believe it took me 6 years to find this


Is the OP, mworthan, still here?

I need the definative answer on whether a cast bullet in a 358 Winchester can be a viable option in my new BLR for deer and elk out to 200yd ranges.


I would like the flexibility (and independence) of casting my own but I need to hear from folks if this is a practical alternative or would I be better served buying a premium jacketed round?
Thanks

Just my 2 cents, but for deer definitely yes; elk is a strong maybe.
My 35 caliber levergun is a rebored 30-30 Marlin chambered in .356Winchester. A 220gr cast bullet will do a touch over 2200 ft/sec when shot over a Chrony. I have never shot an elk with it but have taken several mule deer and whitetail. I have been toying with the idea of something heavier as a do all bullet, around 250ish grains. Here is the cartridge and current bullet:

 

[Sweetwater1]

My Marlin 336SC is JES rebored to 35-30 and straightened the lever to fit the straight stock I added. Leopold M8 3X guides Saeco#352 @ 2000fps 3" high at 100 yards. It's going elk hunting mid-November in Wyoming. I prefer the Skinner Express site, but my eyes won't let me approach 100 yards. Open sagebrush Mesa. Most shots have been 50-150 yards.