Has anyone done any work with a 375-444 wildcat? I have a 375 rebore by Jess. It would be easy to rechamber to 375-444. Can anyone give me an idea of the performance increase over the 375 Winchester?
Taylor
Published load data for the .375-444 / .375 JDJ in a single shot varies a bit but Accurate Loading Guide #2 has the most aggressive loads and shows the following in a 14" barrel (max velocity load for each bullet weight shown):
200 Sierra FN Accurate AAC-2520 54.0 2,283
220 Hornady SP Accurate AAC-2520 54.0 2,255
235 Speer SP Accurate AAC-2520 51.0 2,161
250 Barnes-X Accurate AAC-2520 48.0 2,052
270 Hornady SP Accurate AAC-2520 52.0 2,096
Bear in mind the above data is in a strong single shot pistol, not a lever gun. Since it's in .375, jacketed bullet selection is limited in RN and FN formats, so you're going to be limited to 200, 220 and 250 gr RN and FN designs - if you can find them - and the average Model 94 or 336 probably would not withstand those loads.
At those lighter bullet weights and in a strong action, it's only doing about 150-200 fps faster than the .375 Win in a similar 14" barrel. You probably would not see much more than 100 fps advantage with the .375 JDJ over a .375 Win when shooting them both in a lever action.
In my opinion, it's just not worth the bother as the bolt face, magazine, loading gate, ejection port and lifter would all have to accommodate the .510" rim diameter as well as the 2.248" cartridge length and 3.13" OAL of the .375 JDJ (compared to .506", 2.20" and 2.56" respectively for the .375 Win.)
200 Sierra FN Accurate AAC-2520 54.0 2,283
220 Hornady SP Accurate AAC-2520 54.0 2,255
235 Speer SP Accurate AAC-2520 51.0 2,161
250 Barnes-X Accurate AAC-2520 48.0 2,052
270 Hornady SP Accurate AAC-2520 52.0 2,096
Bear in mind the above data is in a strong single shot pistol, not a lever gun. Since it's in .375, jacketed bullet selection is limited in RN and FN formats, so you're going to be limited to 200, 220 and 250 gr RN and FN designs - if you can find them - and the average Model 94 or 336 probably would not withstand those loads.
At those lighter bullet weights and in a strong action, it's only doing about 150-200 fps faster than the .375 Win in a similar 14" barrel. You probably would not see much more than 100 fps advantage with the .375 JDJ over a .375 Win when shooting them both in a lever action.
In my opinion, it's just not worth the bother as the bolt face, magazine, loading gate, ejection port and lifter would all have to accommodate the .510" rim diameter as well as the 2.248" cartridge length and 3.13" OAL of the .375 JDJ (compared to .506", 2.20" and 2.56" respectively for the .375 Win.)
The 375/444 wildcat has been done without problems.
I had not thought about going with a 375-08. The diameter at the base is .470 tapering down to .455 at the start of the neck which is the same as 375/444. With the 375/08, more bullet is sticking out of the case than the 375/08 bullet, but I was planning to shorten the case on the 375/444 anyway so the to wildcats match up really well. I have a lot of 308 brass.
Did the propane supplied give you any bullet speeds with a 220 grain bullet?
I had not thought about going with a 375-08. The diameter at the base is .470 tapering down to .455 at the start of the neck which is the same as 375/444. With the 375/08, more bullet is sticking out of the case than the 375/08 bullet, but I was planning to shorten the case on the 375/444 anyway so the to wildcats match up really well. I have a lot of 308 brass.
Did the propane supplied give you any bullet speeds with a 220 grain bullet?
He probably did but I cannot remember. I would imagine a 220 could be loaded to approximate the same weight bullet in a 356. I think that the 375-444 and 375-08 would need to have a very similar configuration to work in a Marlin. I think you could use either parent to create either wildcat. I know he just used a 308 reamer to get where he wanted to be. I know I said 356, but the case body is the same.
One issue with kicking up the 375/44 or the 375 JDJones is that 375 bullets fall into two camps.
Ones made for the 375 win and ones made with for the 357H&H. the 375/44 is a tweener; so you will find the 375win designed bullet ( 220gr) will explode and the 375 H&H design bullets will not open well on game.
For long range target/gong shooting it is perfect with the 270 grain spitzers.
Ones made for the 375 win and ones made with for the 357H&H. the 375/44 is a tweener; so you will find the 375win designed bullet ( 220gr) will explode and the 375 H&H design bullets will not open well on game.
For long range target/gong shooting it is perfect with the 270 grain spitzers.
Hi Harry. I have not heard from you in a long time. I used to be on the old Marlin board and then the new Marlin board. I have been a member here for a long time also. I keep forgetting my pass word and have to enter as a new member under a different name. How are things up north?
To me, the 375 Winchester is a tweener. For deer, I would rather have a lighter recoiling rifle. For hogs and black bear, I would rather have a heavier bullet like the 444.
I would like to kick it up so when I go black bear hunting, I can take it as a back up. Do you have any ideas?
To me, the 375 Winchester is a tweener. For deer, I would rather have a lighter recoiling rifle. For hogs and black bear, I would rather have a heavier bullet like the 444.
I would like to kick it up so when I go black bear hunting, I can take it as a back up. Do you have any ideas?
There is a company that makes bullets for the .375 cal in both RN and FN styles. They also have jackets you can choose that vary in thickness from .025 to .035 (and for the H&H & Ruger versions up to .050) in weights 200gr, 235gr, 250gr, 270gr & 300gr. I would think a 250gr with .025 or .030 jacket or 300gr with .030 jacket would work very well at or above typical .375 Win velocities.
While I can't speak to the 336 conversion, I blew a ton of money trying to make a couple of Win.94's feed a 44 x 356BB. The solution was to convert the top ejector Post 64 action to the BB version. A new BB carrier, and both guide rails did it. My G.S. still had to influence the mag tube over towards the loading gate, to help the big nosed slugs make that turn. Those BB cases have really thick case heads, so you only get 300 Sav. capacities. Maybe its better to keep it as a 375 Win., and put a heavier 24 inch barrel into it. Something like the 38-55 Legendary Lawman series. OTOH, you could solve both problems, if you could find one of those Lawman's in 38-55 Win.
My next 44 Marsh ( 44 Marlin Short), will have one of these 24 inch, half Oct. barrels, to dampen down both the recoil, and the muzzle whip. Full magazines shoot to a different point of impact, than loading one, single shot, over a bench. I dumped off a very early 375 Win., that I bought new, for this same reason. The lighter bullets of the 7mm Shooting Times Easterner, don't seem to exhibit any of this barrel whip drama. Nor will the 38-55 Win. in those Legendary Lawman commemoratives.
My next 44 Marsh ( 44 Marlin Short), will have one of these 24 inch, half Oct. barrels, to dampen down both the recoil, and the muzzle whip. Full magazines shoot to a different point of impact, than loading one, single shot, over a bench. I dumped off a very early 375 Win., that I bought new, for this same reason. The lighter bullets of the 7mm Shooting Times Easterner, don't seem to exhibit any of this barrel whip drama. Nor will the 38-55 Win. in those Legendary Lawman commemoratives.
Taylor, nice to see your post.
Personally, I've been messing around with a 9.3x62 Manlicker style stocked CZ. I'm very impressed with it on paper sub-MOA. Going to test it on some bear in 60 days, in Maine...hopefully. But it will take a couple of boar over the winter. I loaf over at the H andloaders Bench http://www.handloadersbench.com/recent.html
On kicking things up, you might want to consider the 375/284. this has the same case capacity as the old 375/'06, but is shorter and has a better shoulder. It basically dublicates my 9.3x62 but with .375 bullets more readily available then the 9.3 (.366). this is a rebated rim case, so I'm not sure how well it would adapt to a single shot, possible ejector problems??
Sorry Taylor, I missed your OP and that you are using a marlin 336, thought you had an Encore. the 375/284 needs a stronger action than the 336, because of it pressure level. It works fine in the Savage 99 lever, but would not be safe in the Marlin. Over the years I've had difficulty getting 'smith that would rebarrel the 336. years ago I bought marlin336 in 30-30 at a red-light special. I got it to rebarrel it to 25-30, a much underrated cartridge. Carried that 336 to dozens of gunsmiths, none would do it.
Personally, I've been messing around with a 9.3x62 Manlicker style stocked CZ. I'm very impressed with it on paper sub-MOA. Going to test it on some bear in 60 days, in Maine...hopefully. But it will take a couple of boar over the winter. I loaf over at the H andloaders Bench http://www.handloadersbench.com/recent.html
On kicking things up, you might want to consider the 375/284. this has the same case capacity as the old 375/'06, but is shorter and has a better shoulder. It basically dublicates my 9.3x62 but with .375 bullets more readily available then the 9.3 (.366). this is a rebated rim case, so I'm not sure how well it would adapt to a single shot, possible ejector problems??
Sorry Taylor, I missed your OP and that you are using a marlin 336, thought you had an Encore. the 375/284 needs a stronger action than the 336, because of it pressure level. It works fine in the Savage 99 lever, but would not be safe in the Marlin. Over the years I've had difficulty getting 'smith that would rebarrel the 336. years ago I bought marlin336 in 30-30 at a red-light special. I got it to rebarrel it to 25-30, a much underrated cartridge. Carried that 336 to dozens of gunsmiths, none would do it.
3/4 inch barrel threads
Harry, unless something has changed, both the Win. 94-92 and the Marlin 336 only have this skimpy barrel thread. It may or may not be the weak link, but I have seen a Marlin receiver blow out, "crack", into the mag tube's socket, which totally ruins it. Basically, you're left with a coffee can full of parts.
Harry, unless something has changed, both the Win. 94-92 and the Marlin 336 only have this skimpy barrel thread. It may or may not be the weak link, but I have seen a Marlin receiver blow out, "crack", into the mag tube's socket, which totally ruins it. Basically, you're left with a coffee can full of parts.
Waste of time
Model52 brought up some points. If fact I exceed those pistol loads with my 375 in Savage M99 and Ruger.
210gr Barnes X 2400ps
235gr Speer SP 2300fps
250gr Sierra Game King 2160fps
260grNosler Partition 2115fps
There is nothing the Ruger can do that the Savage cannot. Pressure non issue the Savage can take 65,000psi without hiccup. COL non issue as Savage can take COL of 2.90. And there sure ain't nothing 375 JDJ can do that 375 Win can't. Get a Savage if you want more than one shot or a Ruger in 375 if one is enough and never look back!!!
Model52 brought up some points. If fact I exceed those pistol loads with my 375 in Savage M99 and Ruger.
210gr Barnes X 2400ps
235gr Speer SP 2300fps
250gr Sierra Game King 2160fps
260grNosler Partition 2115fps
There is nothing the Ruger can do that the Savage cannot. Pressure non issue the Savage can take 65,000psi without hiccup. COL non issue as Savage can take COL of 2.90. And there sure ain't nothing 375 JDJ can do that 375 Win can't. Get a Savage if you want more than one shot or a Ruger in 375 if one is enough and never look back!!!
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