[Elliot]

I spent an hour or so at the range today and tried out my Winchester 444 with a new Limbsaver recoil pad. WOW! I had my 30-30 there with me also and the recoil of the 444 was indistinguishable from the "unbuffered" 30-30. This is the best $30 I've spent in a long time! I shot 40 rounds through my Winchester 30-30 and then put 14 rounds through the 444. The good folks at Limbsaver have tamed the beast. I'm still shooting up my factory ammunition, or as the guy in the next lane put it, we're fire-forming brass today. I've got two boxes of Hornady's 265 grain bullets, 1 box of Bearthooth's 280 grain, and two more boxes of Beartooth's 290 grain on the way. The barrel ports let everyone know that I was shooting. . .

This range had a bunch of high-dollar custom tack-drivers today. I felt like an out-sider with two lever-actions; except that everyone kept coming by to look at real hunting rifles. The gentleman in the lane next to me had a purple plastic stock on his rifle. He was making very small holes at 100 yards but he had more hardware than a rich kids erector set going on.

And it really pee's them off if you out shoot them with a lever.. I love it when a plan comes together.. LOL

 

[LET-CA]

I wish. I wasn't impressing anyone today. I had to drift the iron sights on my 30-30 with a hammer (success) but I was shooting only three inch groups at 50 yards with the 30-30. The 444 was shooting two-inch groups at 50 yards with the Williams FP receiver sights. Good enough for hunting, but these guys were making one hole at 100 yards. the guy next to me was using a 36 power scope with his rifle mounted on a rail. . . He was pulling the trigger, but that seemed to be about the limit of the human participation in the event.

 

[Elliot]

Yep.. time will come and in woods hunting he couldn't hit a bull in the a$$ with snow shovel if he was riding it....
You will get better.. and you will find the sweet ammo and get the rifle tuned for lots less than he has in the rail his sets on.. and sometime you will touch holes at 100 and just smile at him, he will get so flustered that he will pack up and take his new car cost bolt gun and go home. LOLPMP

 

[Starrbow]

The only thing the 444 gives up to the 450/45-70 is a heavier/bigger bullet, and in the 30 years I have owned and hunted with the 444 I "NEVER" needed a bigger/heavier bullet to do the job "Better"
The 444 does it with less bullet and less powder, and thats a winner in my book. My take on the 45-70 ammo any where in America is pure BS, there is so many lame cowboy loads and off brand ammo out there it would be a needle in the hay stack to find exactly what you are shooting, The 450 has that won hands down, because it only has one ammo offering you know at least it will be the same as what you got and thats a "Big" plus.......Marko

 

[Ranch Dog]

Ahh... the age old argument. I have all three and now have kill feral hogs with all three. These rascals just won't answer me when I ask them the question as to which caliber they think would have killed them better. They all just lay there and look at me with glassed over eye. Dead is dead.

My preference remains the 444.

 

[jackfish]

The question was:

Is there any real logical advantage to owning a .444 or a .450 over the tried and true 45/70?

The obvious answer is:

No.

The 45-70 throws heavier pieces of lead down-range, but the trajectory is something akin to a girl throwing a baseball. The 444 gives a longer "dead-on" hold with more than enough "whump-factor" (that's a technical term) to do it's intended job at the receiving end.

When loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns the 45-70 will shoot just as "flat" as the 444 Marlin.

 

[Elliot]

Ahh... the age old argument. I have all three and now have kill feral hogs with all three. These rascals just won't answer me when I ask them the question as to which caliber they think would have killed them better. They all just lay there and look at me with glassed over eye. Dead is dead.

My preference remains the 444.

I agree Dead is Dead...

 

[Brian]

Option46,
As far as hunting or paper shooting goes, I don't think there is any real difference as far as "Dead is Dead". Certainly, if you feel more comfortable throwing a heavier peice of projectile because of the beast you are hunting, then try a 45-70 or handloaded 450.
In the "Tech Notes" section on this site, you will find 3 well-written articles on the 444 and its performance with handloads.
I've used a 444P on an elk hunt and shot a nice bull. I was using the remington factory fodder and was lucky I was able to make a neck shot because the bullet fragged. That was my fault. I should have tested the bullet, not just shot for accuracy (which was great).
I bought a 45-70GS and stuck with it. Part of it is its such an "old-dog" and is all I need for hunting where I normally hunt. I can find brass & bullets for it readily and its not fussy over components for me. I would suggest you use a good crimp die if you reload any of them. But, sorry I sold the 444P? Every day

Nice try at his 444P VTDW

 

[LET-CA]

Is there any real logical advantage to owning a .444 or a .450 over the tried and true 45/70?

The thing that finally swayed me to the .444 was the neat decoder ring that all .444 shooters are given. That, and the reserved parking spot everywhere I go.

 

[Ranch Dog]

Dang LET-CA... you let the cat out of the bag!

 

[DOK]

If you want expert information on the .444, read Marshall's outstanding three piece article in "Tech Note"......"444 Marlin- America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part I, II and III by Marshall Stanton


http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm

Dan

 

[jackfish]

If you want expert information on the .444, read Marshall's outstanding three piece article in "Tech Note"......"444 Marlin- America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part I, II and III by Marshall Stanton
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm
Dan

Those are good articles. But he does not make his point because of an incomplete evaluation of other calibers. If he had put the Marlin 1895 45-70 through the same paces as he did with the Marlin 444 it would be harder to claim the 444 more versatile. All he does is says it is more versatile at the beginning of the article, then talks exclusively about the 444, while never actually saying what makes it more versatile or comparing it with other cartridges to show what makes it more versatile. He does sell a lot of .429-.432" bullets with them though.

 

[Dan 444]

For those of us with Marlinitis, the answer to this age old question is not relevant. The real question is what do I and those inflicted with this desease (Marlinitis) do about it?

Don't worry about which is "best". Just buy 'em all because they are there. They are all great guns that make big holes.

My preference is my 444.

Dan

 

[option46]

Since I started this thread I might tell you I've already looked into the price of a Marlin in 45/70.
This spring I'm going to the fleemarket at Rutledge MO to look for a used Marlin 45/70 but I might have to settle for a new one.

 

[ICS]

The thing that finally swayed me to the .444 was the neat decoder ring that all .444 shooters are given. That, and the reserved parking spot everywhere I go.

ya, you may have gotten the ring but we who went with the 450 got the de-coder PIN. not to mention the free super-size @ burger king

 

[Leverdude]

He's not the only odd man out. Mines a 45/70 too.
Anyway any of them will kill something if you shoot it. You already got the 444 so unless you want another one your all set.
I got what I got mostly because I went in the gunshop one day & there was a straight grip levergun caught my eye. Dont see many straight grip Marlins around here & it was a 45/70, something I read a bit about & I'm nastolgik or whatever so it followed me home.
Mine dont shoot like VTDW's but it might if I handloaded, that seems to be the key.
But then I probly cant shoot as good as him anyhow so who knows. I can get honest 3" 100 yard groups off a bench when everythings working out right.
Dave kinda told you why he got the 444 but he musta forgot the part about bullet weight. See he's getting kinda old now & at his age every ounce counts. He can carry bout twice as many of them puny 444's before his back starts hurtin than he can 45/70's. So you see its still a calibre related decision & I respect Dave alot.
Matter of fact I respect him so much I might just git me a 444 for my 40th birthday next month. I believe in being prepared & when the day comes I need a littler gun I wanna just pull it from the cabinet.

 

[LET-CA]

ya, you may have gotten the ring but we who went with the 450 got the de-coder PIN. not to mention the free super-size @ burger king

Doh! (as I slap my forhead)

 

[VTDW]

He's not the only odd man out. Mines a 45/70 too.
Anyway any of them will kill something if you shoot it. You already got the 444 so unless you want another one your all set.
I got what I got mostly because I went in the gunshop one day & there was a straight grip levergun caught my eye. Dont see many straight grip Marlins around here & it was a 45/70, something I read a bit about & I'm nastolgik or whatever so it followed me home.
Mine dont shoot like VTDW's but it might if I handloaded, that seems to be the key.
But then I probly cant shoot as good as him anyhow so who knows. I can get honest 3" 100 yard groups off a bench when everythings working out right.
Dave kinda told you why he got the 444 but he musta forgot the part about bullet weight. See he's getting kinda old now & at his age every ounce counts. He can carry bout twice as many of them puny 444's before his back starts hurtin than he can 45/70's. So you see its still a calibre related decision & I respect Dave alot.
Matter of fact I respect him so much I might just git me a 444 for my 40th birthday next month. I believe in being prepared & when the day comes I need a littler gun I wanna just pull it from the cabinet.

Ken is a VERY astute young man!!! I have a new found respect for him and the way he gives his ELDERS their due.

Dave

 

[oldfordjr]

OK guys,

I've been a shooter all my life, but at 42, I'm just now delving into the world of BIG BORE LEVER GUNS (yee-ha!).
I have friends with BBLGs, but a couple are trying to sway me in different directions.

Here's what I THINK I have learned from this site and personal observation.

1- The .444 is becoming very popular and is "an inherently accurate" caliber, (is that compared to the 45/70?)

2-45/70 is still a more popular caliber with a greater availability of....over the counter factory loads, and reloading components (brass). Also the price of .444 brass and factory loads is still pretty steep when I've found it.

3- In the end, the 45/70 can be loaded with a much heavier bullet and greater ft/lbs of knock-down than the .444.

4- The .450 Marlin is not very common as I have yet to find brass or factory loads at my local shooting supply shops or any of the 'box' stores like Gander Mtn, Dicks, or Walmart.

Is there any real logical advantage to owning a .444 or a .450 over the tried and true 45/70?

I've already purchased a Marlin Outfitter P ,444 and it is fun to shoot but at $25 a box/20, it is going to take a few bucks to build up a supply of brass.
I bought it in .444 because, as a kid I saved and bought a savage 99 and was talked into getting it in .243 although I wanted it in a savage caliber, 250-savage and I've kind of regretted it since.

In the end, I might have to find a marlin in a 45/70 just to own both of them.
Somebody convince me one way or the other.

In Reply:

They are all "great" calibers, but when you compare all the ballistics and reloading potentials associated with the various bullet weights and options. I am sure that the 45-70, primarly due to the it's history, will "out-weight" the pro's and con's of each respective cartridge. That is the reason why I made the decision to go back to the 45-70 - for it's versatility!

For what's it's worth, good luck with your endeavors.

Joe

 

[NonPCnraRN]

Decoder rings, decoder pins....... I got a case of those chemical ice packs with my 450M Guide Gun. There was nothing rational nor intelligent about my purchase. I was in the gunshop picking up my 45LC Birds Head Vaquero #2 and while waiting for the paperwork I heard this rifle calling to me. "Buy me, buy me, you know you want to.....buy me!" It was the the only one there and in 450 Marlin. The trigger pull was light and broke like a glass rod right out of the box. Oh ****.....and out comes the checkbook. Now I have no need for this gun except I don't have one and the wife says: "What's it used for? I say: "Hunting Grizzly bears". She says: "Seen many in California lately?" I say: "No, but I got it covered in case I do!". Then she smiles and gives me that "At least he's not out chasing women" look! As to the discussion as to which gun is better? Who cares! As someone previously said: "Dead is dead!" I got a new gun and an understanding wife. Life is good! One more thing I learned in 26 yrs of marriage. If I come in the front door with a equally expensive bauble from the jewelry store with the new gun, she doesn't mind me buying guns.