Ford vs. Chevy. - I own both, they're both great. If you're loading your own ammunition you can pretty much have anything you desire from mild to wild with either. Having said all that I prefer the 444. Get one and don't look back!

 

Bird Dog,
It is really a tough choice.
I started out with a daisy about 45 yrs.ago.
Then as I was growing up I picked up a few levers while in the Navy.
Then a few years ago I was introduced to this website and I've not been the same since then.
I along with alot of others have been diagnosed with what is called Marlinitis.
The short story is unless you want to start a lever war you might as well as go and get both the .444 and .45-70.
You are going to anyway.
Check out this websites articles on the .444 and its unlimited reloadability.
I swear that between Marshal's articles and Ranch Dogs reports these two men have been selling more .444's than Marlin themselves.
Hay by the way did you see all the new stainless on the market.

Good-Luck
Webfoot

 

Have had both, and thinking about it, considered each to be good for the same jobs (can add in the .450M. if you like)...if one was any better than the other in the field, couldn't detect it.

The choice would be one of personal preference, just a mental flip of the coin as both guns are the same except for the hole run through the barrel.

 

I've got them both and and you are basically talking the 1895G or the 444P (short barrels). I personally would go with the 444P and not look back. With Marshall's Beartooth bullet selection and Hodgdon powders, this rifle will do ANYTHING you want to do.

With practical bullet choices, the 444 will provide a flatter trajectory for a greater Point Blank Range compared to the 45-70.

The 444P was built from 1998 through 2002 so you will have to find one on the used market. They've been running about $413 this year on GunBroker and Auction Arms, about $10 under what a current production 444 will cost. A NIB sold for $580. Overall and with the limited production, a 444P would not only be a great performing BB but a good investment.

 

Bird Dog,

I have hunted deer with a Marlin 444P since the Fall of 2000, and I must say that I am very impressed with it. The rifle is easy to carry, it is very precise, and deer just just don't like it all. I mounted a Leupold Vx-II 2-7X33 telescopic sight on it to take best advantage of it.

I don't know why, but it seems that my whole levergun collection has been discontinued. I also have a Marlin 1894P. It looks like the 444P's little brother, and its a 44 magnum. This little rifle is perfect for carrying on long hikes. I have taken five deer with the 44 Magnum. The cartridge does very well.

This might be another big bore levergun worth considering.

Best wishes,
Rushbeau

 

I was kind of expecting to see more .45-70 backers than .444s. I will say that I inline Muzzle-load hunt with .454 sabots loaded to .45-70 levels and have been very impressed with the performance of those bullets in the field. I am sure the heavy .44s would do about the same.

 

Count me in on the .45/70 side of the arguement. You can shoot anything from mild cow boy style loads, on up to the Garrett or Buffalo Bore elephant killers, with an almost unlimited range of loads between these two extremes.

I only have three .45/70's so far: a Marlin 1895G, a Marlin 1895 Cow Boy, and a Winchester 1886 Take Down. I would also like to get a Sharps '74, maybe a Trapdoor Springfield, and probably a BFR revolver someday. For my "medium" bore lever action, I have an 1895 Winchester in .405 Win.

The old .45/70 will do anything you could ever want. I don't have a .444. Not that I have anything against them. I just don't need one.

 

I've got them both and and you are basically talking the 1895G or the 444P (short barrels). I personally would go with the 444P and not look back. With Marshall's Beartooth bullet selection and Hodgdon powders, this rifle will do ANYTHING you want to do.

With practical bullet choices, the 444 will provide a flatter trajectory for a greater Point Blank Range compared to the 45-70.

The 444P was built from 1998 through 2002 so you will have to find one on the used market. They've been running about $413 this year on GunBroker and Auction Arms, about $10 under what a current production 444 will cost. A NIB sold for $580. Overall and with the limited production, a 444P would not only be a great performing BB but a good investment.

Or, you could buy a 444 or 45/70 in 22" bbl and have it cut to desired length and recrowned. Opinions vary on the desirability of the ported barrel (it's very loud but does mitigate recoil). This would also get you a shorter barrel with pistol grip instead of the straight grip. Depends on what you want. Since the 22" barrel versions tend to be cheaper, the added cost to cut and crown should more or less level out depending on your local gunsmiths. Just an option.

 

As said before, with each properly loaded it really is a ford/chevy thing, execpt that chevys are better and I like the 45/70.

I've owned both and really I just "like" the 45/70 better. Something classy about a round thats been around as long as it has.

 

I too own both, but when I'm serious about putting meat in the freezer, it's the Triple-Four that punches my tag. Been doing that for 25 years now... kind of a rut I'm in, but a successful one at that!

Inexpensive cowboy bullets with a load of Unique, Universal or Blue Dot make great 1200-1400 fps plinkers for critters off-season as well. No recoil and very little muzzle report make them almost addictive to shoot.

God bless,

 

I have taken down some of the largest grizzlies and moose with the .45-70 and doubt with inexperience that the .444 can do likewise. That is drawing a line I know but with my personal use the .45-70 is without question a true brutal force contender-in close.

regards,

 

Regarding the .444 and moose. Only one harvest here, but at 215 yards, my hunting partner hissed that I'd shot over my bull when he saw a plume of grey dust rise off the granite boulder beyond. The bull moose had simply disappeard at the shot, and upon investigation, the bull was down for the count, with both shoulders broken, and eight inches of spine destroyed! The grey dust had been from the bullet striking the granite AFTER penetrating lots of pretty tough moose tissue and bone!

A fun, and memorable day!

God bless,

 

I went through all this about a month ago.
2 weeks ago I picked up a new 444.
reasons one makes a choice can be personal preference.
I think if max power is your preference with handloads the edge goes to the 45-70.
Which is one of the reasons I chose the .444?
I noted that with max loads in the 45-70 recoil aproches the 458 Winchester. And with stories of some experiencing detatched retinas with the heavy recoiling rifles.
And my only having one eye I did not want to risk the temptation to punish myself.
Besides I have never seen an elephant in my rose garden.
Buf only in zoo's
Iowa does not have bear, Black or Griz.
My intent was to use the rifle for deer and hopefully a trip south for wild hog and the .444 should be plenty, yet not excessively punishing.

BTW Birddog you got any hogs down there?

 

I'll vote .444 Marlin. If the elephants show up in my neighborhood.... heck, I'll just break out the .458 Win Mag

Seriously.... if Marlins have a glaring flaw, it is that the stock design isn't worth snot for heavy recoil. Thus, the .45-70s get somewhat lively with heavy loads; the .444 is more managable.

Not that I'd turn down a good Marlin .45-70 if I found one....

 

BTW Birddog you got any hogs down there?

Yes there are hogs in southern and now in south central Missouri. Quite a few from the stories I am hearing and the populations are increasing and moving north along some river valleys. There have been a lot at Ft Leonard Wood for quite a while and they encourage hunting them. In fact the Conservation Department encourages killing them on site if you see one while hunting other species. On the other hand, they claim there are only 1,000 to 3,000 in the state. This contradicts what some of my friends have reported seeing along a couple of river valleys in South Central MO. The truth lies somewhere in between I'm sure. Since generally everyone in that country has a .30-06 or .30-30, I imagine the population is controlled by the locals, with certain pockets with higher concentrations in remote areas.

 

Go with the 444!
I have killed over 40 moose with mine since 1989, and I think that the 444 is an outstanding big game rifle with a good bullet.

If big game, like moose or big bears is on the list, load with a good 300 gr. + castbullet, or a 300 gr. jacketed bullet, like Speer or Swift.

Most of my moose I have taken with the 300 gr. Speer Uni-Core and my home cast 318 gr and 350 gr bullets.

For praktice, just buy the cheapest pistol bullet, cast or jacketed you can find, or start casting your own bullets.

 

If you reload then the only advantage to the 444 is using the cheaper pistol bullets for practice. When the 444 came out Marlin was trying to get hunters back to a high power lever gun. The 45/70 was loaded down to the original black power pressures due to the trapdoor Springfields out there. I doubt that any factory would have been willing to put out a high pressure 45/70 at that time. Marlins idea was to have a 200 yard cartridge which is what the factory round works well for. Nowadays you can buy high pressure loads for the 45/70 so theres not too much difference between the two. My 444 was accurate with just about any load. Dont know about the 45/70 but it sure is popular. Personally I dont find the 22 inch gun all that difficult to carry. It seems to be about the perfect balance to me. Unless you like the idea of an old classic cartridge then get the 444. You wont be dissapointed.

 

With practical bullet choices, the 444 will provide a flatter trajectory for a greater Point Blank Range compared to the 45-70.

When both the 45-70 Gov't and 444 Marlin are loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns, given equal sectional density, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration at least as fast as the 444 Marlin, and given equal weight, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration significantly faster than the 444 Marlin. Hence, the 45-70 Gov't will shoot just as "flat" (as in equivalent trajectory) as the 444 Marlin while delivering more energy to the target and more recoil to the shooter.

 

And so, the great saga of the .444 vs. the 45/70 continues ... rather comforting isn't it? ... just as surely as the sun rises and sets each day . Anyone up for a .308 vs. .30-06 argument? ... I bet kdub would just love it . [ P.S., I'm just kidding lest some gung-ho troll takes me seriously ]

Please gentlemen, continue with the topic at hand .

 

And so, the great saga of the .444 vs. the 45/70 continues ... rather comforting isn't it? ... just as surely as the sun rises and sets each day . Anyone up for a .308 vs. .30-06 argument? ... I bet kdub would just love it . [ P.S., I'm just kidding lest some gung-ho troll takes me seriously ]

Please gentlemen, continue with the topic at hand .

I guess I'm the troll. I love the .308, but's is significantly disadvantaged with 200 and 220 grain bullets, so don't even go there. That's my area of expertise having shot a lot of both.

I am a newbie on the .444 vs .45-70 though. One question on the .444, does the semi-rim make it more or less reliable, and more or less smooth in the action?

 

When both the 45-70 Gov't and 444 Marlin are loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns, given equal sectional density, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration at least as fast as the 444 Marlin, and given equal weight, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration significantly faster than the 444 Marlin. Hence, the 45-70 Gov't will shoot just as "flat" (as in equivalent trajectory) as the 444 Marlin while delivering more energy to the target and more recoil to the shooter.

Jackfish is correct. You get more thump, on both ends, with the .45-70.

Trouble is... the .45-70 starts to deliver some serious thump at the higher end loadings!

 

If I am allowed a vote, it would go to the 45-70. The 45-70 is able to launch bullets that weigh twice as much as the 444 and at substantial velocities,,,, and recoil. I don't have a 444 but my shooting and hunting buddy does,, the 444 is a great gun and fully able to take most any game we are likely to encounter. I really doubt for most situations there really is a nickles worth the difference. I am just enamored with the 45-70, especially since I have owned so many. Interesting side note. I lived in Tucson for 25 years or so and I was hunting in the mountains in the Southeast and found a very old 45-70 on the ground. It was one of the first years it was made as it was inside primed. I sure wish it could talk, I have often wondered if it was shot at a deer by a Trooper,, or an Apache.

 

Hi Birdog,

You had asked about feeding reliability regarding the 444Mar.. The action on my Marlin 444P is very smooth, and catridges load very smoothly from the magazine to the lifter and into the chamber. I have run lots of ammo through my rifle without any malfunctions.

Best wishes,
Rushbeau

 

Trouble is... the .45-70 starts to deliver some serious thump at the higher end loadings!

a certain fact and without a doubt!

 

If you don't handload, you are more likely to find 45/70 ammo than you are to find 444 Marlin in any given location. The 444 Marlin factory ammo you find will be much more suitable to hunting than the 45/70, unless you stumble across a store that carries Buffalo Bore ammunition.

If you handload, there is no practical difference, and I would suggest just buying what you can find. Unless you want something really specific, like th 18" guide gun or the 26" CB, in which case you have already made a specific decision. While I have heard of a couple of instances of each from the different manufacturers that wouldn't shoot no-matter-what, I believe these to be rare occurrances.

I personally have a Marlin 1895 because I found it before I found a 444. In either case, I was looking for the curved grip and 22" barrel, either calliber would have been just fine. I am quite happy with my 1895.

My next Big Bore lever gun will be a 444XLR, which I will buy as soon as I can lay my hands on one. I'm not expecting that to be soon, unfortunately...