Anyone try shooting round balls out of a .45 Colt? I've been very impressed with the accuracy of my Ruger Old Army with round ball loads, but less than impressed with the accuracy of the .45 Colt round in my .454 Super Red Hawk. Since the chanbers of the .454 are longer than the standard .45 Colt chamber, I'm sure the jump between the case and the barrel doesn't do wonders for accuracy with the shorter .45 Colts. I'm thinking that with a round ball the orientation of the ball when it enters the barrel wouldn't really matter, so there may be a possibility of better consistency than with a standard bullet. I'm wondering if anyone has tried such a load, and what the results were?
Red Pepper
45 Colt Round Ball
Never tried it, but if this helps the SPEER manual #11 has load data for just such a venture.
Never tried it, but if this helps the SPEER manual #11 has load data for just such a venture.
I'm using some 200 grain cast SWC bullets. I don't know off the top of my head if they're .452 or .451 dia., but I believe they're .451. I'll check when I get home.
Zwickey2bl:
Thanks for the info. Sounds like an interesting load.
Gunnut:
My bullets are .452. I'm going to play with them a bit more. Accuracy was ok for action events, but I was hoping for a bit more. I'll try some other load and bullets before I give up. Might try a .45 Colt equivalent with .454 cases to see if the longer cases aid accuracy.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like an interesting load.
Gunnut:
My bullets are .452. I'm going to play with them a bit more. Accuracy was ok for action events, but I was hoping for a bit more. I'll try some other load and bullets before I give up. Might try a .45 Colt equivalent with .454 cases to see if the longer cases aid accuracy.
Are few rifles/handguns that don't get tried with roundball...most of the handgun loads are very close to Zwickey2bl's loads.
Guess the idea is that if shooting round ball, aren't looking for speed and power, just something to plink with...and a RB at 600-700fps puts a hole in a tin can with the best of them (actually better...tends to pick the can up and fling it rather than zing on through leaving the can to slightly quiver).
One helpful hint. At these pressures, brass doesn't expoand much. IF you use full length sized brass, often get a sooty deposit along the sides of the case (case doesn't expand enough to fully seal the chamber and the gas soots the sides). Try cases that are either barely sized, or not resized at all for these "mouse flatulence" loads.
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First reloads were without any real tools at all. A flied nail as a deprimer, a hard wood block with a hole in it to allow the primer to fall free, dent on the other side of the block as a ball seater, and a .22LR case soldered on a paper clip..."OOO" buck for .38special bullets....a a bit of grease smeared over them for bullet lube.
Priming was the "iffy" part. Had a wooden rood clmaped in a vice...case over the rod (primer pocket pointed up)...finger start a primer, the flat of a putty knife against the primer, and gently press/tap it in.
Yep...did have one go off when I taped a bit too hard...but the big flat blade of the putty knife deflected any problems away from my hands or face.
I still make the same loads today; use better equipment but ralize that the end result isn't any better or worse than it was with "no tool" loading.
Guess the idea is that if shooting round ball, aren't looking for speed and power, just something to plink with...and a RB at 600-700fps puts a hole in a tin can with the best of them (actually better...tends to pick the can up and fling it rather than zing on through leaving the can to slightly quiver).
One helpful hint. At these pressures, brass doesn't expoand much. IF you use full length sized brass, often get a sooty deposit along the sides of the case (case doesn't expand enough to fully seal the chamber and the gas soots the sides). Try cases that are either barely sized, or not resized at all for these "mouse flatulence" loads.
---------
First reloads were without any real tools at all. A flied nail as a deprimer, a hard wood block with a hole in it to allow the primer to fall free, dent on the other side of the block as a ball seater, and a .22LR case soldered on a paper clip..."OOO" buck for .38special bullets....a a bit of grease smeared over them for bullet lube.
Priming was the "iffy" part. Had a wooden rood clmaped in a vice...case over the rod (primer pocket pointed up)...finger start a primer, the flat of a putty knife against the primer, and gently press/tap it in.
Yep...did have one go off when I taped a bit too hard...but the big flat blade of the putty knife deflected any problems away from my hands or face.
I still make the same loads today; use better equipment but ralize that the end result isn't any better or worse than it was with "no tool" loading.
Just a quick hint for those doing the round ball fun loads. I've found that using some Lee Liquid Alox bullet lubricant on the round balls positively eliminates about 80% of the leading problems that might be associated with these loads. It's quick, cheap and simple insurance.
God bless,
God bless,
I always seem to have a pocket full of the roundball loads for the .45
I shoot em out of both the Smith and Rossi.
I had gotten a Lee Loader for the .45Colt (creature of habit I guess, have one for everything I shoot) and use that to make em up. I do not size the cases nor use a crimp. I use RedDot in mine.
Sure work good on grouse. Much better than a slingshot for accuracy and I have never had one fly off like when they are hit with a .22
I use the Speer .452 diameter balls.
Am going to try the liquid alox on them now. Thanks
Scotty
I shoot em out of both the Smith and Rossi.
I had gotten a Lee Loader for the .45Colt (creature of habit I guess, have one for everything I shoot) and use that to make em up. I do not size the cases nor use a crimp. I use RedDot in mine.
Sure work good on grouse. Much better than a slingshot for accuracy and I have never had one fly off like when they are hit with a .22
I use the Speer .452 diameter balls.
Am going to try the liquid alox on them now. Thanks
Scotty
Marshall,
I use a Lee dipper (.5cc) which weighs out to 3 grians of Red Dot (plus or minus depending on humidity in house)
Speer roundballs actually measure .454 and friction fit in unsized colt case. If I am planning to let em bump around in my pocket for a while, I seat them halfway and put a slight crimp on them
I believe that with some liquid alox to prevent leading, a .7 cc (about 5 grains) charge will make for a better critter gitter. Gotta try. I do know that 5 grains of Red Dot will make a 255 swc into a real bunny thumper.
I find that I have to tip the powder back to the primer for best results. This is much more critical in the Rossi levergun since if I do not, velocity is barely enough to get the ball out the muzzel.
So far, these have provided one shot drops on all grouse hit. It just knockes em over without a twitch. Meat damage is similar to what I get from a blunt arrow from my longbow. No secondary bruising. I have had a fair number of birds fly off to become lost on the forest floor after hits with hi-velocity .22
I find that I can short stroke the Rossi and single load the roundball while grouse hunting and still keep the tube full of heavy .45colt for everything without feathers.
This has worked good for me to provide a practical way to hunt birds with the big bore. I have shot enough of them from the levergun to be confident that any grouse within thirty feet is headed for the skillet (baring a sudden move by the grouse or a shift in the earths axis ;*)
do not have quite the confidence with the handgun, but am getting there.
I believe that seating the ball deeper in the case will improve things drastically in that shot to shot pressures will be more stable and one will not have to tilt powder back to the primer for good ignition.
Will have to try some bullseye to see if powder position is an issue.
Fun stuff these roundball loads, and within a limited range, great for foraging.
Would love to hear more on the subject.
Scotty
I use a Lee dipper (.5cc) which weighs out to 3 grians of Red Dot (plus or minus depending on humidity in house)
Speer roundballs actually measure .454 and friction fit in unsized colt case. If I am planning to let em bump around in my pocket for a while, I seat them halfway and put a slight crimp on them
I believe that with some liquid alox to prevent leading, a .7 cc (about 5 grains) charge will make for a better critter gitter. Gotta try. I do know that 5 grains of Red Dot will make a 255 swc into a real bunny thumper.
I find that I have to tip the powder back to the primer for best results. This is much more critical in the Rossi levergun since if I do not, velocity is barely enough to get the ball out the muzzel.
So far, these have provided one shot drops on all grouse hit. It just knockes em over without a twitch. Meat damage is similar to what I get from a blunt arrow from my longbow. No secondary bruising. I have had a fair number of birds fly off to become lost on the forest floor after hits with hi-velocity .22
I find that I can short stroke the Rossi and single load the roundball while grouse hunting and still keep the tube full of heavy .45colt for everything without feathers.
This has worked good for me to provide a practical way to hunt birds with the big bore. I have shot enough of them from the levergun to be confident that any grouse within thirty feet is headed for the skillet (baring a sudden move by the grouse or a shift in the earths axis ;*)
do not have quite the confidence with the handgun, but am getting there.
I believe that seating the ball deeper in the case will improve things drastically in that shot to shot pressures will be more stable and one will not have to tilt powder back to the primer for good ignition.
Will have to try some bullseye to see if powder position is an issue.
Fun stuff these roundball loads, and within a limited range, great for foraging.
Would love to hear more on the subject.
Scotty
Tend to use Red Dot becasue it's tested to be less position sensitive than Bullseye (700x is also a good choice). ALL of them will show a variation between gun-pointed-up and gun-pointed-down, but some show less than others.
Red Dot is "fluffy" (low density powder designed to take up space for the weight) and this seems to help. 3gr. of Red Dot takes up more case volume than 3gr. of nearly any other pistol powder...and that seems to help with position sensitivity. That same Lee dipper used for REed Dot will throw heavier weight charge of Bullseye (and for that matter, most other powders on the market as well).
In small cases (like the .32SWL or .32ACp using "o" buck) there isn't enough excess volume to worry about...but in that big .45colt case, there is.
Red Dot is "fluffy" (low density powder designed to take up space for the weight) and this seems to help. 3gr. of Red Dot takes up more case volume than 3gr. of nearly any other pistol powder...and that seems to help with position sensitivity. That same Lee dipper used for REed Dot will throw heavier weight charge of Bullseye (and for that matter, most other powders on the market as well).
In small cases (like the .32SWL or .32ACp using "o" buck) there isn't enough excess volume to worry about...but in that big .45colt case, there is.
If you want to have fun, A few years ago I was doing research on some 1840's to 1900 miltary weapons and I ran across a load when the army was changing over from the Cap and Ball wheel guns to the cartridge ammo. The miltary had tons of the .45 cal Minie type balls and some one came up with the idea of filling the case of the .45 with black powder then loading the maxi ball in to the case. So I reproduced the load but I used 777 blackpowder and they shot rather nice. They smoke alot and seem to be hard in the brass but it is a fun load and shot. In fact I have a friend that loads 777 in his .38 reloads from time to time just to mess with people. The bullet I use is a 200gr R-E-A-L bullet. I cast it useing the Lee 90390 double cavity mold. I have also loaded the bullet on 10.5gr of bullseye and 11.9gr of Unique. all of the loads are very nice for shooting hogs but tend to rip apart a deer pretty bad. The primer is CCI 300 large pistol.Red Pepper said:
Here are a few images of the loaded bullet.
Overview
Bullet = 200gr R-E-A-L
case = Rem
powder charge (1) = full the case with 777
powder charge (2) = 10.5gr Bullseye
powder charge (3) = 11.9 Unique
Primer = CCI 300 Large pistol
NOTE: I would only shot these loads out of a Ruger or Thompson Contender pistol or any of the pistol caliber rifles.
Hey Guys,
The URL for Trail Boss is
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss-feb2005.php
It doesn't give round ball loads, but does give loads for bullets as light as 160 grains and as heavy as 250 grains.
I'm thinking a 45 cal round ball goes ~145 grains....????
Lobo in West Virginia
The URL for Trail Boss is
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss-feb2005.php
It doesn't give round ball loads, but does give loads for bullets as light as 160 grains and as heavy as 250 grains.
I'm thinking a 45 cal round ball goes ~145 grains....????
Lobo in West Virginia
A quick google search shows a .451 roundball goes 137 grains, while a .454 is 142.
I've never tried roundball loads in the .45 colt, but it does sound fun! I use Tight group for my CAS loads with 250 gr. bullets, so I always have some on hand. It might work well for roundball loads since it's not as position sensitive as a lot of other powders.
I've never tried roundball loads in the .45 colt, but it does sound fun! I use Tight group for my CAS loads with 250 gr. bullets, so I always have some on hand. It might work well for roundball loads since it's not as position sensitive as a lot of other powders.
I just recently got a jar of Trail Boss. It's made by the IMR Powder Co., made in Australia and packaged in the USA. The same size new plastic bottle that holds 1# of most the other powders is jammed full of minature flattened cheerios and only weighs 9oz. I've loaded up some loads with it but haven't got a chance to really shoot enough of it to decide if I like it.loco cerveza said:
It definitely fills up the case well. It says it was developed for Lead bullets and CB action shooters. I found data for it on Loadata on the web and my gunshop had an IMR loading manual.
Mike B.
Loco:
This is what IMR has to say about their Trail Boss:
Trail Boss is designed specifically for low velocity lead bullet loads suitable for Cowboy Action shooting. It is primarily a pistol powder, but has some application in rifle. It is based on a whole new technology which allows very high loading density, good flow through powder measures, stability in severe temperature variation and most importantly, additional safety to the handloader."
It's designed to fill the case to eliminate position sensitivity, yet still give low pressures for cowboy action.
Darrel
This is what IMR has to say about their Trail Boss:
Trail Boss is designed specifically for low velocity lead bullet loads suitable for Cowboy Action shooting. It is primarily a pistol powder, but has some application in rifle. It is based on a whole new technology which allows very high loading density, good flow through powder measures, stability in severe temperature variation and most importantly, additional safety to the handloader."
It's designed to fill the case to eliminate position sensitivity, yet still give low pressures for cowboy action.
Darrel
I used to use loads from the Speer no. 11, like Dmagnum suggested. You could actually see the round ball in flight. They were accurate enough from my blackhawk to head-shoot those big dumb fox squirrels that I found in southern Minnesota when I lived there for a couple of years. They usually penetrated the head, but often did not exit. They pretty much just crushed the head. I never tried to lube the round balls (duh!) and got lots of leading. In fact, that was the worst leading that I've ever experienced in a firearm! I mostly used 3.2 grains of bullseye, listed at 550 fps from a 5.5-inch barrel. I seated them a bit past the center of the round ball bullet (more bullet inside the case than outside) and crimped them lightly. Other loads listed in the Speer manual for the round ball are 3.2 grains of red dot, 4.0 grains of 700x, 4.0 grains of 231, 4.5 grains of Unique, 4.5 grains of SR7625, and 5.0 grains of SR4756. They ranged from 544 to 632 fps. Its good to hang onto those old manuals.Red Pepper said:
It should work. Long ago there was a rifle made called the forager. It was a rolling block, in 45-70 cal, yet it was a smooth bore. Orginal loads were either a round ball in the brass case, or a shot load. It would shoot just about everything you stuck in a 45-70 case. Other than cylinder jump, it should be safe, it might lead up badly depends on the speed. Lets us know all the results if you can.Red Pepper said:
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