I had a Rem 700 that did the same thing, ended up being a rough chamber (machine marks) the brass would expand but the machine marks kept it from releasing, gunsmith polished the chamber and lapped the bolt, never another problem.

 

Different rifle=different chamber. The cases may be a touch too long for the chamber neck and not releasing the bullet correctly. Or the loaded cartridge may be too close to the lands. Loading for one rifle doesn't necessarily mean that you can shoot that load in another rifle.

Allen

 

jakesnake66,

The prior posters gave savvy advice. I have a few suggestions: Try a factory .30-06 load and see if you get the hard bolt lift issue. How many times have you reloaded the handloads used in this rifle? Is the .30-06 rifle new and did your handloads chamber easily?

I had a new .264 Winchester Magnum Mark X Rifle that exhibited hard bolt lift with factory ammo. An excellent gunsmith determined the rifle's chamber was not square with the bore and the bolt was camming the fired case shoulder back a bit to extract the fired case. The new rifle was a Herter's arm made 25+/- years ago and the rifle had never been fired by the deceased purchaser. I had it rebarreled with a square-chambered .264WM barrel and it is a sub-MOA rifle today with my 120 grain handloads. My fired handloads extract easily, now.

Hope this helps.

Webley

 

Loading for one rifle doesn't necessarily mean that you can shoot that load in another rifle.

Agreed. And to clarify, these weren't loads for the other two rifles, just the same powder and charge. I measured for OAL using the Hornady gauge, FL sized the brass, setting the shoulder back just enough. I based the charge on having worked up a load using IMR 3031 and got to 1 grain under max (according to Lyman 49th), with no pressure signs - very accurate load. I wanted to compare the performance using preferred loads for 2 of my rifles - same bullet but IMR4895 and Varget instead of the 3031, and I backed off another grain.

It's a rifle I don't particularly care for - Remington 710 - but my friend really wants me to try to improve its accuracy - something I very much enjoy doing. I got nowhere until I floated the barrel, and was really impressed with my results using a 150 grain TSX and IMR3031. No pressure signs at near-max with that powder, but VERY hard bolt to turn and open using the other two powders at 2 grain under max.

 

Would suggest either you or a good 'smith polish out the chamber and check the headspacing of the 710. Also, Webley's suggestion of trying factory ammo for results makes a lot of sense. This rifle may need to have Small Base dies used for reloading.

 

Yeah. Soft brass can do this too. But something is not right. Check all the things as above.....

 

Check your brass case heads for bolt face impressions/ejector plunger marks and shinny smears. If the case head is marred, that is what caused the "sticky" bolt and is only caused by excessive pressure. Not saying high pressure is the only cause of "sticky" bolt, there are mechanical reasons too. But, if your bolt lift problem is caused by excessive pressure, the head will show it. If the heads are not marred, something else is causing the "sticky" bolt. As mentioned earlier, chamber alignment/finish maybe? Action screws too long? I was shooting with a guy one time who's bolt would close just fine when loading, but on extracting a fired case, the lug would drag on the overly long action screw. Just a thought. Also check where the stiffness begins, is it hard to lift from its "in battery" position (all the way down)?
Does it move slightly before getting stiff?

Two different things can cause these two types of stiff bolt lift. If the bolt is stiff from "all the way down", the bolt face and case head have become well acquainted with each other. If the bolt moves slightly then gets stiff, the case is swollen against something in the chamber (bad finish) that is preventing its initial extraction.

Allen

 

Add a dab of grease to the cocking cam.

Make sure no screws are protruding and binding the bolt, both stock and scope mount screws can do this.

 

On numerous occasions, I've seen older surplus ammo cause a sticky bolt or extraction problems in semi-autos..

What I've found is that decades-old ammo (even in a sealed SPAM can) may develop a "gritty" coating on the surface. Before I shoot any surplus ammo, I either tumble it for a couple hours or wipe it down with an old T-shirt while watching a movie or something. This has solved a number of sticky extraction problems that I've witnessed.

Of course, this assumes that the rifle's chamber is properly clean beforehand.

 

Sometimes something as simple as a dirty chamber can cause this, or a rough chamber as has been said. Always check the simple (and cheap things) first.

 

Check the engagement of the extraction cam. If the bolt handle is set wrong (many were) the extractor cam only works at the last instant and there's not enough cam motion to break loose the case.
Also, an out of square bolt face will be hard to open with some loads and not others. It's a difference in how the case obturates.
Also two-- Three lug actions have to do 90 degrees worth of work in 60 degrees of rotation. The combination of rough or miss-fit cocking cam surfaces, extractor cam surfaces, bolt face and chamber squareness, and interior finish can make some rifles very hard to operate. The 710 is notorious.

 

working with a friend's 30-06, I got "sticky bolt" with loads that just "shouldn't" (don't like that word)

"sticky bolt" same here, difficult to open, too much resistance to bolt lift, 'sticky' just never caught on.

By now someone has suggested cleaning the rifle chamber and bore. I have a friend that was not happy with his rifle, he could not shoot max loads, he complained, finally Ruger told him to sent the rifle back. He did.

No one knows where the accuracy went but he could shoot max loads. Another rifle, it allows for 2 grains over max without pressure signs. Could be a large diameter barrel, could be a long chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.

He wishes he still had the rifle that would not shoot max loads.

F. Guffey

 

The search for 'extra' velocity causes more trouble than all other firearms problems combined....and deer don't know the difference.

It's easy to get any rifle to take two grains over max loads. Weatherby has done it for years. Just put in some free-bore to let the excess pressure out. Of course barrels wear much faster and accuracy usually declines very rapidly but hey, it sure shoots fast!!

 

This is a problem I have experienced with several different rifles I have owned over the last 50 + years. You may find a rough chamber, soft brass which I had with a 35 Newton. Look at the lugs sometimes it is as simple as dry lugs. Brass can be to long for that chamber. I had the same problem a short time ago with a 257 Weatherby built on a 1909 Arg Mauser,I keep reducing my load, then one day I broke the bolt handle trying to get the action open. We removed the barrel and found the action was a little soft and the lugs had set back in the action. I have the action to remind me to have all of the actions Rockwell tested before investing money in the future.

 

Jim love--- Having a 1909 Argentine hardness tested will drive you batty. They were ONLY case-hardened where they needed it and nowhere else. The outsides of an Argy won't register on the C scale.

That is NOT the action for a .257 Weatherby! Pick one made after 1933 of alloy steel and then be SURE to lap the lugs just enough to get the ejector notch wrinkle out of it, then headspace to dead zero and DON'T hot rod it. A belted magnum will work through a M98 and last a long time if not given a chance to 'run'. (It'll probably never feed 'right' but that's another story.)

 

Soft Mausers



I have used more Mausers than I can remember and have rejected many because they were to soft. For many years I had access to Rockwell equipment and find the CZ-24 have given me best luck. Which was Parker Ackley's choice. One of the last actions he built was a 257 Ackley on a CZ that was very strong. I have a 308 Norma with hundreds of Max loads. You are right the older actions have shown to be a poor choice for belted rounds. Every rifle I own today are Mausers most commericals.
I am in process building the only non Mauser I own from a std 25-06 into a 257 Weatherby,the action is a Wickliffe single that is very strong.

 

I had the same problem a short time ago with a 257 Weatherby built on a 1909 Arg Mauser,I keep reducing my load, then one day I broke the bolt handle trying to get the action open.

It is possible to track the length of the chamber from the beginning to the end. Problem, the length of the chamber from the datum/shoulder to the bolt face is not part of the history of the rifle and smiths only use head space gages that come in three different sizes, there is go-gage, no go-gage and field reject gage. For the 30/06 thee are 11 possibly, the smith chooses two of them. I determine the length of the chamber in thousandths from the shoulder to the bolt face.

F. Guffey

 

F-Guffy--
Very few gunsmiths use separate necking reamers to chamber a rifle. The length of the chamber is determined by the reamer and they are ground to SAAMI specs. Back in P.O.Ackley's day it was common to have one reamer for a body and several for neck diameters. That way, a 'smith could chamber 6mm RemAI, .257 Robt AI and 7x57 AI with the same body reamer. BR 'smiths still use this method, but it's more common to have a removable neck reamer that indexes to SAAMI specs.

The 'datum line' of the shoulder is a totally different measurement than 'distance to the shoulder'. It's a geometric line used in taper shank tool holders, pressure fittings and many other places where shoulder angles are involved.

To accurately measure the chamber takes casting it while off the receiver. The gunsmith will first measure from the face of the receiver to the face of the bolt, then measure from the butt of the barrel to the shoulder. Subtract one from the other and that tells you how far past the butt of the barrel the base of the case stick out (good luck with safety breeched M70, '03, etc). Then measure the chamber cast that overflowed the chamber and add the amount of stick-out and you have the true length of your chamber, as well as a good look at the throat and condition of the chamber.

Most people trim cases .010 less than the measurement given as case length in the reloading manuals and call it good.

 

The VZ-24 was the first non-Mauser built M-98 for military use that used alloy steels. The Banner 33s and 34s are also alloy steel and through hardened but made my Mauser Werkes.
PO recommended the VZ-24 because it is one of the only military M-98 actions that are ALL alloy and through hardened. The VZ-24 was never made from mild steel and case hardened as is the case with most other arsenals. The other popular military 98s that are always good are the VZ-33 and G33-40 and all the FN-made M-98s with the true C ring. (pre-1948).
I reject cut-ring M-98s like the later Venezuelan M-24s and absolutely love the old case hardened contract rifles by DWM (Mauser Werkes- military division).

More than one hard bolt lift on ANY M-98 with a moderate pressure load means the top lug raceway has set back. It causes a 'wrinkle' of metal to flow into the ejector slot. The hard bolt lift is your bolt having to cam into the case to override that wrinkle. It's easy to remove, but the rifle has to be re-headspaced by turning back one thread and the action should certainly be re-heat-treated.

I'm not argumentative, just making the record complete for the lurkers.

 

I didn't feel your were being argumentative,because I like having a conversation with someone that has been" there and done that" because I have made my share of mistakes, once Parker gave me a load from Hutton for my 243 AI,I was shooting one of the Golden Eagles with rear locking lugs,I don't know what action and barrel Hutton used but he must have had a very long freebore because the 1st round froze the action to point I had to use a mallet to get it opened,now the lugs are set back.To my surprise it still functioned without problems. I have had a lot of close calls.

 

Very few gunsmiths use separate necking reamers to chamber a rifle.

Nothing I said had anything to do with neck reamers. I said the length of the chamber can be tracked, all that is required is finding someone that knows how.

F. Guffey

 

jakesnake66,

In a prior post you stated you reloaded for your friend's .30-06 and "was one grain under Maximum." WAS that your starting load? Did you start at the Starting Load and work up, or go "one grain under max?"

I have seen rifles act differently with Near Maximum loads and wonder if that may be a factor here.

Webley

 

All 'improved' calibers are a bad accident waiting to happen for the uninitiated. I've come SO close!!

Here is the bottom line---There are very few factory rifles 'tight' enough in headspace to simply rechamber and shoot. There really needs to be 'feel' on the GO gauge to prevent hammering the lugs. If the case is given any kind of running head start, the lugs can be set back in most actions. Keep 'em really tight and then the book loads make sense. "Really tight" means one layer of masking tape on the back of a factory unfired case can be felt on closing a stripped bolt. (.0035 headspace)
Of COURSE a true headspace gauge is better, but most people don't have one. It feels good to have a little closing effort on cases being fireformed.

I did over a hundred 22-250AI in a two month period in the late '80s. Only a dozen or could be done without barrel set-back, first. Rimmed and belted cases can be re-chambered without set-back, but usually not rimless AIs. Many customers don't understand why a .22K Hornet cost $100 and a 22-250 AI sometimes double that. Headspace is the reason.

Last fall, there was an auction of several hundred rifles near here. About 40 were AIs and a couple Gibbs and Gebbys. Not a single one was headspaced correctly. That's not to say they're dangerous, but they certainly are subject to case failure and that's never pleasant or safe!

 

Like you when fireforming any Ackley or ICL I try to set a false shoulder and to the point I want to feel pressure when closing the bolt,if I am forming cases for a single Ruger No 1 or some other it is a little harder to get a strong crush fit. You mentioned Gebby,I lived in Tucson when he died and bought several of his guns including his 240 Super Varminter that he built and Smith did his loading. He made a set trigger for it the only problem sometimes when you lifted the bolt with a live round in the chamber it would fire. I gave that trigger to Murphy's gun shop.

 

Not a single one was headspaced correctly. That's not to say they're dangerous, but they certainly are subject to case failure and that's never pleasant or safe!

That is reason this is a reloading forum, I adjust the length of the case to off set the length of the chamber.

I have one rifle that has an additional .016" added to the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. Problem: No one know the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face when the rifle was built. I am the only one that measure chamber length in thousandths. The rifle with the long chamber does not have excessive case head protrusion, meaning? If there was bolt set back and or ware between the seats and bolt lugs there would be additional case head protrusion.

F. Guffey

 

Guffey--

The way I understand you is that you have a rifle with .016 excess headspace (which is eyeball destruction waiting to happen), BUT, you can fireform cases to fit your chamber and essentially create a brand new caliber. that works great unless it's marked "30-06 AI" ,but it's actually a 30-06AI +.016.

The measurement you speak of, in a rimless cartridge is the 'headspace'. I misunderstood you the first time and thought you wanted to measure the chamber length. That's a good bit more complicated and requires findiing out what the cases stick-out distance is.

 

BUT, you can fireform cases to fit your chamber and essentially create a brand new caliber.

You jumped out into the fast lane, I assumed you could keep up.

'you can fire form', yes I can, I don't. I form first then fire. I know the length of the chamber, this chamber is .002" longer than a field reject chamber. 280 Remington cases are .051" longer than a 30/06 case. I form 280 Remington cases to fit the long chamber. Nothing magic, I adjust the sizing die off the shell holder with a feeler gage .014" then size and verify.

I do not use 280 cases that have outlived their usefulness. I have spent time at the firing range measuring the length of cases that have been fired. I look for cases that have been fired in trashy old long chambers. It is more simple to work with a case that is too long from the shoulder to the case head than it is to work with cases that are too short. 'Too short' cases require fire forming, Back to 'YOU CAN FIRE FORM', you can, all that is required is chamber a round and pull the trigger.

F. Guffye