I have an NEF handi rifle in 7mm-08 that has proven to be a decent shooter. I've been shooting 140g Barnes tsxt bullets in. I had a 7mm rem mag for a while but due to a shoulder injury I sold it. Just could not handle it at the time. Shooting it was not an issue the next day I was hurting. However that's long past. I have a bunch of 160g and 175g Barnes tsxt bullets left. I prefer to use heavy bullets. Just me. I'm super tempted to try them out in the NEF. My concern is on game proformance. I'm going to take the rifle to the woods next year. This year I've just been using my marlin xl7 in .308. Anyway if accuracy is good will the 7mm-08 with a 22 inch barrel be able to drive 160g and 175g hard enough to perform adequately on deer and pigs? Most all of the factory ammo is 140g. Anyway should I stick to 140g pills or try out the heavier stuff?
Heavy 7mm-08 bullets?
2 reading
Zapzoo
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
I've shot a good number of deer and antelope with a 7br XP-100, bullets over 120 grains do not kill quickly from that gun/cartridge combination, when the mv is below 2200 rifle bullets don't expand, I've seen it enough times to know that it's reality.
Now I'm not saying that this will be the case for this situation with the 175's and the 7-08 because WE don't know how fast they will emerge from the end of his barrel, probably faster than the aforementioned 2200mv but I can tell you that there is a point where rifle hunting bullets fail to expand and fail to cause enough hydrostatic shock to kill humanely, I've seen it first hand on several occasions.
All for the cost of a box of bullets.
Now I'm not saying that this will be the case for this situation with the 175's and the 7-08 because WE don't know how fast they will emerge from the end of his barrel, probably faster than the aforementioned 2200mv but I can tell you that there is a point where rifle hunting bullets fail to expand and fail to cause enough hydrostatic shock to kill humanely, I've seen it first hand on several occasions.
All for the cost of a box of bullets.
Joined
·
3,989 Posts
Couple of things
ALL BULLETS are not created = some open easier than others. I don't know of any xp-100's with 22" barrels. How much hydrostatic shock does an arrow going 300 fps, ( MAYBE ) have? NO a 175 gr 7mm08 would not be my first pick for shots >100 yards.
ALL BULLETS are not created = some open easier than others. I don't know of any xp-100's with 22" barrels. How much hydrostatic shock does an arrow going 300 fps, ( MAYBE ) have? NO a 175 gr 7mm08 would not be my first pick for shots >100 yards.
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
I've been looking through the Barnes components and have not yet found a 35 caliber bullet that is made for 35 Rem that can be used in a rifle with a tube magazine, except for perhaps the 140 gr pistol bullet (XPB). I had the thought that a 200 gr Barnes would be a wonderful elk load, but with the TSX or TTSX you would only be able to use one as first up when being carried in the chamber, or at the end of the magazine tube.
As for heavier bullets in a 7-08, any of the ballistic tip type bullets should expand to some degree, even at lower velocities. But, as was already mentioned by old roper, the Barnes bullets the OP has must be TSX so they won't be tipped. The Barnes load data shows using up to a 160 gr TSX FB with MV maxing out at over 2600fps, although some of those maxed loads are compressed.
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
Another reason why Peregrines are a better choice, Tim. The VRG3 Bushmaster has a nice flat mephlat, perfect for a tube magazine
Joined
·
8,725 Posts
Never said the Barnes in the .35 was tube friendly, it's NOT! But it was tried in a .35 with results as noted, 180gr.
They sure do look beautiful with that flat nose and the plunger mechanism.
BushMaster Reloading Bullets | Peregrine Bullets
Problem for it is in .356 cal the 200 grains are sold out, as is the 235 grain.
They show some nice load data for the 7mm-08, up to 168 gr bullets:
http://www.peregrinebullets.com/7-08-mm-load-data/
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
I can maybe talk to them about a .358 run should the batch be large enough. Hunting season here is past and soon will be in the US so the pressure is not too bad I think. It mostly depends on whether the rods are in stock and the cutting tools and reamers.
Because the .33 and .35 calibres are very rare out here there maybe is no demand at all.
Because the .33 and .35 calibres are very rare out here there maybe is no demand at all.
I don't condone it now but in my younger days I shot a few antelope with a 220 swift, hydrostatic shock kills can be spectacularly fast. As you can imagine less than precise shots in the neck or behind the front shoulder are equally as big a failures.If the hope is that hydrostatic shock must kill the animal then indeed it is a long shot, and in fact in vain.
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
The issue has been ridden hackneyed, Kevin, but maybe you can explain:
1. What is hydro static shock and when did the term enter bullet behaviour.
2. How does the bullet carry the ability for hydro static shock.
3. How does it impart hydro static shock to the animal.
4. How does the hydro static shock kill the animal.
5. Which bullet have hydro static shock and when.
6. Which bullets do not have hydro static shock and why not.
7. If a 175 gr. 7mm bullet that leaves the 7x57 or 7mm-08 at 2,500 ft/sec does not have hydro static shock but kills all ten species of elk size animals out here and elk out there every day what is it that kills those hundreds of animals?
8. If a 200 gr .35 Remington bullet that leaves the muzzle at 1,900 f/sec kills elk regularly in even Colorado does not have sufficient hydro static shock to kill it what then kills it?
9. If I push a sword through your heart, what kills you?
Maybe there should be a gun religion election to decide which is the killer - hydro static shock or kinetic energy; or, if there is no clear winner to be declared idola suprema maybe a new dichotomy-based religion should be adopted and enforced by the Velocity Inquisition to be believed as the only dogma the gun world must bend its collective knee to - that both KE an HSS have equal standing, jointly and severally.
There always will be a few heretics like me who maintain that physics determine what kills and what not - like the kinetic energy carried by a bullet as latent heat can not kill anything, so can hydro static shock not kill anything either. Mechanical cutting of the heart and its life sustaining pulse nodes stops the supply of oxygen which kills the individual. Mechanical disruption of the brain immediately and mechanically cuts off via a hardware switch the instructions to the motor systems. A mechanically cut hole through the lungs interferes with the oxygenating of the blood which in a slower way causes the software switches in the brain to stop giving pulsating 1s and 0s to the body's firmware so the animal suffers hypoxia and becomes unconscious and dies from the subsequent failure of the homeostasis life support systems.
1. What is hydro static shock and when did the term enter bullet behaviour.
2. How does the bullet carry the ability for hydro static shock.
3. How does it impart hydro static shock to the animal.
4. How does the hydro static shock kill the animal.
5. Which bullet have hydro static shock and when.
6. Which bullets do not have hydro static shock and why not.
7. If a 175 gr. 7mm bullet that leaves the 7x57 or 7mm-08 at 2,500 ft/sec does not have hydro static shock but kills all ten species of elk size animals out here and elk out there every day what is it that kills those hundreds of animals?
8. If a 200 gr .35 Remington bullet that leaves the muzzle at 1,900 f/sec kills elk regularly in even Colorado does not have sufficient hydro static shock to kill it what then kills it?
9. If I push a sword through your heart, what kills you?
Maybe there should be a gun religion election to decide which is the killer - hydro static shock or kinetic energy; or, if there is no clear winner to be declared idola suprema maybe a new dichotomy-based religion should be adopted and enforced by the Velocity Inquisition to be believed as the only dogma the gun world must bend its collective knee to - that both KE an HSS have equal standing, jointly and severally.
There always will be a few heretics like me who maintain that physics determine what kills and what not - like the kinetic energy carried by a bullet as latent heat can not kill anything, so can hydro static shock not kill anything either. Mechanical cutting of the heart and its life sustaining pulse nodes stops the supply of oxygen which kills the individual. Mechanical disruption of the brain immediately and mechanically cuts off via a hardware switch the instructions to the motor systems. A mechanically cut hole through the lungs interferes with the oxygenating of the blood which in a slower way causes the software switches in the brain to stop giving pulsating 1s and 0s to the body's firmware so the animal suffers hypoxia and becomes unconscious and dies from the subsequent failure of the homeostasis life support systems.
Mm
I've killed a good cross section of most American species with bows, crossbows, pistols, shotguns{slugs}, muzzleloaders and rifles from 17 Remington{bullberry solids} to 350 Remington magnum, both of us are correct, long slow bullets kill just as sure as short fast ones.
Your convinced that front shoulder shots with long bullets are the way to go and I like the fast expanding middleweights behind the front shoulder, we will never agree on that.
I suspect that your opinions partly arise from our age difference, your about 20 years older than I, add to that your a dark continent hunter and there's bound to be differences in opinions.
I run into the same thing talking with younger bow hunters, I won't use multi-part broadheads including those expandable gizmo's because I've had them come apart when hitting bone. The younger guys think my one piece montec carbon steel heads are a throwback to the dark ages. They always trying to convince me that I should practice and be prepared for 40-50- or even 60 yard shots, they think I'm a luddite because I shoot everything inside 25yards with one sight pin.
I like to chime in on such conversations just to let newer members know that there's more than one approach to everything.
I've killed a good cross section of most American species with bows, crossbows, pistols, shotguns{slugs}, muzzleloaders and rifles from 17 Remington{bullberry solids} to 350 Remington magnum, both of us are correct, long slow bullets kill just as sure as short fast ones.
Your convinced that front shoulder shots with long bullets are the way to go and I like the fast expanding middleweights behind the front shoulder, we will never agree on that.
I suspect that your opinions partly arise from our age difference, your about 20 years older than I, add to that your a dark continent hunter and there's bound to be differences in opinions.
I run into the same thing talking with younger bow hunters, I won't use multi-part broadheads including those expandable gizmo's because I've had them come apart when hitting bone. The younger guys think my one piece montec carbon steel heads are a throwback to the dark ages. They always trying to convince me that I should practice and be prepared for 40-50- or even 60 yard shots, they think I'm a luddite because I shoot everything inside 25yards with one sight pin.
I like to chime in on such conversations just to let newer members know that there's more than one approach to everything.
Joined
·
8,703 Posts
Heh!!!! guys !!!!! Remember that word .... ALWAYS ???????? Honestly I can tell you after over 40yrs on biggish animals, it really doesn't apply.
What does kill an animal is to open up the pipework comprehensively and that also bleeds that meat out and makes good eating.
The term DRT is not in my lexicon. I am quite happy if a deer does a little jump and runs, because I know with a TTSX there will be a 99.99999% chance there will be a big exit hole spewing blood. I just wish the TTSX bullet was available back then.
What does kill an animal is to open up the pipework comprehensively and that also bleeds that meat out and makes good eating.
The term DRT is not in my lexicon. I am quite happy if a deer does a little jump and runs, because I know with a TTSX there will be a 99.99999% chance there will be a big exit hole spewing blood. I just wish the TTSX bullet was available back then.
Joined
·
3,989 Posts
27-28 inch barrel??? 7mm08
Is that some kind of typo? The 7mm08 is an efficient caliber that works well with shorter barrels FOR HUNTING. If I had it to do over I'd go with a 20" on my model 7. I really can't see going beyond 24", MAYBE 26" with larger rifles. I'd have to do some research on ANY POSSIBLE advantages (FPS) that long of a barrel might bring to the table, FOR BENCHREST type shooting. If I needed that much more speed a 280 with a 24" sounds better, TO ME. If the #'s justify your choice, please enlighten me. For an EASTERN rifle I THINK you would be banging branches with 7-8" of too much barrel, & lose handling/balance, depending on the build of the gun.
Is that some kind of typo? The 7mm08 is an efficient caliber that works well with shorter barrels FOR HUNTING. If I had it to do over I'd go with a 20" on my model 7. I really can't see going beyond 24", MAYBE 26" with larger rifles. I'd have to do some research on ANY POSSIBLE advantages (FPS) that long of a barrel might bring to the table, FOR BENCHREST type shooting. If I needed that much more speed a 280 with a 24" sounds better, TO ME. If the #'s justify your choice, please enlighten me. For an EASTERN rifle I THINK you would be banging branches with 7-8" of too much barrel, & lose handling/balance, depending on the build of the gun.
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
The 6.5x55 Swede for 160gr military ammunition had a 29" barrel. In time I shall do exact comparative tests with it and the 24" barrel I also have, with various bullet weights. I personally like 26" and none shorter than 24". Have been hunting for 45 years in dense bush and open plains with my 26" Musgrave .308W and not once did I feel in any way encumbered. Carried and shot a 25.6" CZ 550 in .416 Rem in the densest and darkest riverine forest imaginable for three months with hippo and buffalo and lion all around and never did I have the feeling that I will be late in bringing it into my shoulder. Most dangerous game rifles have minimum 24" barrels.
The much greater steadiness of aim of a longer barrel is much more important than the split second you may bring a shorter barrelled, lighter front end into your shoulder.
The much greater steadiness of aim of a longer barrel is much more important than the split second you may bring a shorter barrelled, lighter front end into your shoulder.
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
Tim, I sent you a PM. They have .356" VRG3 in 200 gr as well as 220gr, and VRG4 in 235gr and are prepared to cut as many more as is needed and add to the shipment being made up as we speak for the US agent in Phoenix, Az. The Whelen shooters will like the 220s and 235s. The VRG4 "Field Master" is a long distance bullet with a pointed insert, doing the same job as the flat mephlat one in the Bush Master series.They sure do look beautiful with that flat nose and the plunger mechanism.
BushMaster Reloading Bullets | Peregrine Bullets
Problem for it is in .356 cal the 200 grains are sold out, as is the 235 grain.
They show some nice load data for the 7mm-08, up to 168 gr bullets:
7-08 mm Load Data | Peregrine Bullets
The rifle will be a TC Encore. I am a still hunter and on my feet all day. In the Encore rifle the longer barrel is more comfortable for me to hold onto when I am standing I often set the rifle butt on my toe or ground while I am scanning the area. The longer barrel brings It up to a more comfortable height To hold onto while doing so. I currently use that set up in a different caliber and have no issues banging branches and so on with it. It's just a personal choice, ease of use thing. It also will add some velocity but at woods distance that is not a factor.
Joined
·
3,989 Posts
Barrel length
Thanks for the explanation. I didn't think of the shorter OAL of the single shots, & the velocity gains not being the main reason for your choice. As for the OLD 29" military lengths, I have to wonder if they would make the bbl's as long, & want to save wt, if they had todays powders. I agree with the steadiness thing. Way back when, Kentucky long rifles were state of the art and some pretty long barrels were considered standard as well. Some Mountain men preferred their Hawkens to have shorter bbl.'s. TEHO, then and now I guess.
Thanks for the explanation. I didn't think of the shorter OAL of the single shots, & the velocity gains not being the main reason for your choice. As for the OLD 29" military lengths, I have to wonder if they would make the bbl's as long, & want to save wt, if they had todays powders. I agree with the steadiness thing. Way back when, Kentucky long rifles were state of the art and some pretty long barrels were considered standard as well. Some Mountain men preferred their Hawkens to have shorter bbl.'s. TEHO, then and now I guess.
I've always been a faster is better guy, I love my shoulder thumpers. But I love the 7mm-08,it is about the perfect caliber for North America (the lower 48 atleast).
I helped work up a 7-08 load using 175gr Partitions. It kept a coal of 2.80". 45.6gr of IMR4350. 10 feet from the muzzle, average velocity was 2529 fps. But let me say This is a max load, it is compressed, please work up to it, do not start there, PLEASE
Good luck and happy shooting!
I helped work up a 7-08 load using 175gr Partitions. It kept a coal of 2.80". 45.6gr of IMR4350. 10 feet from the muzzle, average velocity was 2529 fps. But let me say This is a max load, it is compressed, please work up to it, do not start there, PLEASE
Good luck and happy shooting!
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
