You could also turn the firing pin selector to the center position. (rotary switch type) It'll hold the hammer off the firing pin if the interlock is tripped and the hammer comes forward. It covers the red dot which is the safety position.

 

Or isn't. I've never had to give this any thought before either. Nor was I aware of these lawsuits. I never considered owning one until after I retired to Ohio, which at the time was only shotgun or handguns for deer. This one was for sale locally as a bare action, so I grabbed it and had a happy time fitting barrels and testing. I began to have me doots when I started testing the .357 Max barrel, but forged ahead anyway.

The idea of carrying it in a shoulder holster never occurred to me either. Only way I've hunted with it was from a blind, with a rest. Carried it up there unloaded and cased. Frankly, I can't hit a barn from the inside with it offhand. I do not have Paul Bunyan's hands.

Since I've owned mine, I've often thought that Warren Center never had big game hunting in mind when he designed the original. It isn't strong enough for anything beyond the .22 Hornet and moderate pistol cartridges, I now believe. Target shooting and small varmints seem to me to have been the intended market. The set trigger is a definite plus for those uses. But Americans being Americans, owners HAD to hot-rod the thing, so we got .30-30, .35 Remington, and of course The Max, all of which will actually stretch the frame if overindulged in. And will lead people to stalk around the woods with it loaded and in a shoulder holster.

 

Since I've owned mine, I've often thought that Warren Center never had big game hunting in mind when he designed the original. It isn't strong enough for anything beyond the .22 Hornet and moderate pistol cartridges, I now believe. Target shooting and small varmints seem to me to have been the intended market. The set trigger is a definite plus for those uses. But Americans being Americans, owners HAD to hot-rod the thing, so we got .30-30, .35 Remington, and of course The Max, all of which will actually stretch the frame if overindulged in. And will lead people to stalk around the woods with it loaded and in a shoulder holster.

You're the first person I've ever heard suggest the Contender frame isn't suitable for more than 22 Hornet or the standard straight-walled pistol cartridges. A few thoughts come to mind, when contemplating why you might feel that way.

1) With thousands of them out there, many of which are shooting the powerful rounds you think will ruin the gun, I have never heard of one actually failing. I'm sure it's happened, but the occurrence must be so rare as to not be of any concern or we'd surely be hearing about it. This may be an odd way of looking at it, but when a frame stretches you can get head separations or failure-to-fire, due to light primer strikes. In either case, you are alerted to the condition at hand, which is easily remedied with over-sized hinge pins. Some might call that a built-in safety measure, but only for the attentive?

2) You use the words "overindulged in". Maybe that's the key? Most folks don't shoot 500 rounds a year from their Contender...heck, I probably don't shoot that many in a DECADE! How many rounds of stout 6.5JDJ does it take to stretch a Contender? Even an unimproved case, with a lot more thrust against the standing breech, doesn't get shot frequently enough to present a problem very quickly?

 

Deliberately carrying the arm with the trigger UN-set would exacerbate the problem. Jostling the hammer alone could let the hammer contact the firing pin. An unwise shooter might think that by closing the gun and pulling the trigger (without cocking the hammer) to release the set trigger is somehow safer. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I have to say I've never given this much thought, but now that you present this design feature in such clear terms, it makes perfect sense. I've always thought of a single-shot rifle as being a little safer, but I hadn't realized just how safe that Contender design is.

 

Welcome from S. Idaho to the best gun-oriented cracker barrel on the internet, in my opinion.

 

New member here.

New member here, and this is my first posting. This thread is great information and makes me glad that I have joined the forum!

 

An important discussion. I am happy to have read it. I have two Contenders and an Encore - probably ten barrels (have not counted in a while). Good to know this stuff.
Pete

 

I too am glad for this information and thank JBelk for presenting it. I started to PM that last part to him, as I feel that this thread has gotten very far from original poster's intent, but I also thought someone else might benefit from the exchange. I for one would hate to be walking through the woods with an unsafe weapon in my hand. It is best to know all that you can about whatever choice of firearm that you carry. In this area, I don't think that there is any such thing as too much information.

 

It's plain the problem is not understood and I don't have a gun to play with to make it plainer.

LISTEN for the click as you slowly pull the hammer back. You might even think its a half cock or something but its not. AFTER the click, the hammer is then free to hit the firing pin by dropping or impact no matter the position of trigger.

 

Exactly so.

 

Thanks for that, but I still don't know what passive safety it has in it.

Let me go at it a different way--

With the gun empty, set on center fire, opened and then CLOSED, note the distance of the hammer from the frame or pencil mark the side of the hammer to note the precise position. (This is the 'safe to carry loaded position')

Push the back of the hammer--Does it move at all? How far?

Pull the trigger and then PUSH the hammer. Does it move forward? How far? Note that position of the hammer.

Pull the hammer half way back and then ease it forward. Note that position.

Push the hammer forward and note the position.

Pull the trigger and push the hammer forward and note the position. (THIS is the normal 'fire the cartridge' position)

Now you know what a gunsmith is doing when he 'fiddles' with a broken gun.

The answers to these will tell the tale!

The hammer should ONLY go all the way forward if the hammer has been pulled half way back and the trigger pulled, but I suspect yours will go all the way after the hammer has been pulled half way and the trigger NOT pulled if the hammer is pushed forward.

The accidents in the laws suits seemed to all involve the pistol hitting on the butt and then rotating downward to strike the hammer. A test was set up to show it would fire that way.

 

When my selector switch is on centerfire and is broken for loading, the hammer floats about 1/16 or so inch away from firing pin. I pushed on hammer and it does not seem to be able to go forward (have not tested to see what happens if hammer is impacted) If you pull the trigger the hammer drops and seems to be in contact with the firing pin. I would suspect a blow to the hammer in this position would fire the weapon. If selector switch is set to neutral, the hammer still floats off the firing pin. In this position if the trigger is pulled the selector switch contacts the frame and leaves a very tiny gap between the hammer and firing pins. So I see how this weapon could accidentally fire, so I think either move with the selector switch set to neutral, don't drop the weapon, or if you set up to fire and then don't, break and close the action again. This will get the hammer off of the firing pins. Thanks again for the info Jack. Luckily, I don't think I've ever set up to shoot and then didn't with this weapon. While carrying deer hunting it was my luck never to have seen anything while carrying the T/C. Hoping to change that luck this year and will be very aware of how I'm carrying, and plan to do more testing.

 

I don't know how may times I have been at the range over the last 40 years and pulled the trigger having forgotten to pull the hammer back after settling on the target. None of my Contender frames of many ages from the 1970's forward have ever gone off after the hammer fell that 1/16 inch and I haver never seen the primer more than scratched.

 

It bugs me when my mechanical re-play gets a blank spot in it. Please run a test from me with an unloaded gun that has been opened and shut without the trigger or hammer being pulled. Set the selector to either one of the fire positions before the test. Now, simply push on the back of the hammer. What happens? Does the selector touch the firing pin? Now, pull the trigger and push on the back of the hammer. Does it touch now? I'll bet not, but need to know, otherwise I'll have to drive a hundred miles to find one to look at .
I'm pretty sure the Contender requires the hammer to be cocked BEFORE the trigger can be pulled AND before the selector can touch the firing pin.

 

Okay thanks. I didn't know that there were that many versions of contenders. I plan to go back to hunting with mine this season, and just as an extra precaution, I will have my selector switch on "N" (or in middle) until at least in stand.

 

Blackhawk355--- There were at least three variations of "Contenders" and the last one I had in my hands was about 20 years ago. MY MEMORY, which is subject to age, wear and harmful additives, says when the gun has been opened by pulling up on the trigger guard extension and then closed, there is a sliding block attached to the trigger that is in place UNTIL the hammer begins to cock. At that point, a small coil extension spring pulls the safety block out from its position so the hammer can only then hit the firing pin. I know one model had a safety built into the selector switch so the nose of the safety hit the frame and nothing could hit the firing pin. That could be the first model made.
I remember the sound of that block falling and somewhere I have a cake pan full of T-C parts and a frame that I put a rotating hammer block in before being called off the case. The lawyer paid the bill and said "Keep all that stuff". I should look through there. I've probably got a dozen barrels.

 

In the interest of technical accuracy......pulling the hammer back with the Gen 1 set trigger cocked doesn't release the hammer block. You have to first trip the set trigger to get the block to drop out of the way.

Squeezing the trigger guard sets the trigger, and also pushes the hammer back to what COULD be mistaken for a half-cock position, but it's really just the hammer resting on the hammer block. Further manipulation of the hammer alone will not release the hammer block.

If you pull the trigger while the gun is on "halfcock", the trigger will un-set, but hammer block will remain trapped by the hammer, until you pull the hammer back a tiny bit. Then hammer block spring will retract the block, and the hammer can go forward to rest on the firing pin.

I am unable to get my set trigger to trip by slamming the gun butt-down on a table, but that may be due to the Pachmayr grip I have on it. The hard OEM grips may be another story. So I cannot discount the possibility that dropping the gun on its' butt might not only trip the set trigger, but also jostle the hammer enough to release the hammer block. Now a blow to the back of the hammer would fire the gun.

Deliberately carrying the arm with the trigger UN-set would exacerbate the problem. Jostling the hammer alone will let the hammer block fall, thus putting the hammer in contact the firing pin. An unwise shooter might think that by closing the gun and pulling the trigger (without cocking the hammer) to release the set trigger is somehow safer. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Carrying the gun fully cocked = insane, but I suppose somebody has done it.

BTW mine has the three-position gizmo in the hammer. In the center position nothing touches the firing pin. There's a "nose" on that rotating gadget that hits the frame first.

 

Sorry, should have checked before last post. My frame is an old 4 digit serial number. It does not seem to be able to half cock, but does have the 3 position selector switch on the hammer. If I see what I think I am seeing the hammer is resting on the firing pin in either "R" or "C" but not when in the middle, so carrying it loaded with the switch anywhere but in the middle is unsafe......??

 

I'm still heading the range with a Contender this afternoon like I always do

I think that's great. Will you admit you now know something about that gun you didn't know before?
I'm in it for the education and have taken tremendous risk to tell the 'secrets' that need to be told. Feed back is always nice.

 

Indeed I have. When the striker is engaged the hammer block is held in position by the sear until the trigger is pulled. That part I knew. The "carrying" issue I hadn't thought about is that if the striker has been tripped by the trigger, the hammer block is just held in place by the spring force of the hammer pinning it against the frame. In that case, movement of the hammer can drop the hammer block and therefore the hammer resting on the firing pin.

The second part I learned is that my two little angels are at the door ready to head to the park to play with dad before going to camp and I'd rather spend time with them than arguing over company sales

 

Your Encore is a totally different action using a different safety system.

One of my everlasting gripes and one of the reasons I wrote my books is that gun companies don't have to tell their customers when a gun is FOUND to be defective. They just quietly go away. That's exactly what happened to the T-C Contender. They introduced a new model and extolled its many virtues but are not required to say a word about what is a SERIOUS defect in the Contender which was dropped from manufacture.

The lesson to take away is this--- The Contender sets a passive safety that keeps the hammer away from the firing pin UNTIL the hammer is cocked part way. At that point, the safety is disengaged but is not RE-engaged until the action is broken open again. SO, if you almost get a shot, but let the hammer down and try to sneak closer, the gun is UN-SAFE in a big way until you break it open to reset the safety block . It differs greatly from other handguns and rifles in that regard.

 

Jack has done a few laps around the track concerning legal matters involving guns. He has no cause or reason to lie. I trust what he says because several courts have and do. That said, my Encore Pro Hunter will never see the field or a holster. It will be strictly a range gun. Hopefully, very LONG range!

 

Jack has done a few laps around the track concerning legal matters involving guns. He has no cause or reason to lie

I haven't accused anybody of lying. I've been involved with the sales of companies before it's normal to hear lots of different stories why a companyty was bought or sold. If Jack is 100% right about the sale, great. I'm still heading the range with a Contender this afternoon like I always do

 

"Emotionally invested"?? I'm answering a question with the facts as I know them. Is that somehow offensive to you?

What I was told by the lawyer that hired me---A Federal judge somewhere forced the owner of T-C (You can look up his name) to divest himself of ALL firearms related businesses, pay monstrous fines and is prohibited from being in the firearms business in the future. It was my understanding, he got away very lightly. The alternatives involved hard jail time.

FWIW--The shop I started in suffered losses by theft of an employee. During the time of investigating what was gone, ATF found enough irregularities in the books that all three owners were given the same treatment by a judge. Divestiture, prohibited from the gun business, fines and years of probation. A good friend of mine bought the shop and I ran it for him for a year after that.

Fraud on a Federal Court is one of the very few crimes that does NOT have a statute of limitations or repose. A judge can grab you YEARS down the road and make you pay in a BIG way. Don't EVER lie to a judge!! There's a lawyer in Texas now that lied on Ozero's immigration program in really big trouble. Even F. Lee Bailey was disbarred and prohibited from practicing law due to misbehavior.

 

Court cases are one thing, company sales are something else. If you say the company was sold because of fraud fair enough, I can see you're a lot more emotionally invested in this than I am.

 

I don't THINK the court records are sealed or under protective order. I didn't sign a protective order when I worked one of the cases that was scheduled to be re-tried in Boise and did some prototype work on several guns. Then I was notified all the cases had been concluded. That must have been in the late '90s.
Read the story. There's much more to it. I've SEEN the two video tapes in question.

 

That's a very interesting bit of history, JBelk. I'll be certain to have the gun secured, if carrying it in a holster. I didn't know that was why T/C was sold.

 

I didn't know that was why T/C was sold.

I've never heard it either but like everything else on the internet, just because somebody said it doesn't mean it's true

 

BillT-- I assume you have a Contender to try to see what happens.
This is not all the story but covers the mechanics of it. Chapter 19 "Unsafe by Design" covers it better.

All seven victims were carrying a Contender in the shoulder holster that was sold for that gun. All seven bent over to move a rock or pick up wood or in one case, another gun. The Contender falls from the holster and the butt hits the ground hard enough to RELEASE the passive safety block. Once the block is released, the hammer can fire the gun by impact of any kind.

TEST--- With the gun reset by opening the barrel and then closing, gently pull the hammer back slowly until you hear a slight click. That is the safety block falling out of the way and removing the block in path to the firing pin. NOW, anything that hit the hammer also hits the firing pin. The hammer hits the ground just after the butt and fires the gun while it's pointed straight at you.

T-C was sold because a fraud was committed on the Court in some of these cases and the judge came down very hard on the owner.

 

Jack, to make sure I'm reading you right, the Old Contenders are only unsafe when the hammer is at half cock? If the hammer is all the way down (and never been placed at half cock) it is safe? Thanks. I've always carried it with a sling X my chest. Don't think that it could fall in this way. Also I don't ever remember having mine at half cock.

 

I bought a T/C Super 14 in the Rem 223, Back in the 70's Love this pistol, For Chucks, & Coyotes, With some good hand loades, It will out shoot some Rifles, Out to 200 yards.

 

Take the elevation screw out of the rear sight tip it up and you will see 2 screws that hold the rear sight assembly onto the frame.

 

Best Encore I have is a 7/08 15". Best Contender is a 7/30 14" and next is a 7 TCU 14". Worst Encore is a .450 Marlin 15". Worst Contender...no such thing!!

 

Just for the record- (chapter 19), the "Contender" has a different and dangerous trigger arrangement than the later Encore.
Under one very specific circumstance, a Contender can shoot you in the chest. All seven I know of were fatal.

 

Just for the record- (chapter 19), the "Contender" has a different and dangerous trigger arrangement than the later Encore.
Under one very specific circumstance, a Contender can shoot you in the chest. All seven I know of were fatal.

Jack, Could you elaborate a bit on this? This is the first I've heard of it. And I have to admit it seems a bit strange how a single shot pistol can shoot you in the chest???