Iowaloha dtu2179,

I'm working on that myself in a Winchester 94. I got some good tips by asking on this board.

May I suggest that you use the "search" feature that is offered? Lots of good informaition to be found that way. Your likely to find some of my questions in there.

Cheezywan

 

Roger that, thanks.

 

you might check out Lee's new manual. It's got a reloading section for doing just what your talking about and some great info on reloading cast for the 30-30. I've been using Lee molds and the liquid alox system for a lot of years now with great success. Their push thru sizing system is also dandy. Here is the link. I buy their stuff from Midway it's always a little less expensive than directly from Lee. Midway has the Lee Manual for about 15 bucks. I recommend reading chapter 10.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1215717509.484=/html/catalog/bullmol2.html

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1215717509.484=/html/catalog/lubesize.html

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cat...cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1215717509.484=/html/catalog/lubesize.html#LeeLiquidAlox

Here's Midway's address.

MidwayUSA — Shooting Supplies, Reloading, Gunsmithing, Ammunition, Gun Parts & Rifle Scopes

 

Thanks Faucettb. Will the round nose bullets work in my lever gun or should I go with a flat nose? Any recommendations there? Also, My gun is a newer model Marlyn 336, do you think I should go with the .309 size die or the one in .308? I am a fan of the Lee equipment and Liquid Alox as well. I cast .38 and .45 with all Lee equipment and tumble lube, all with fine results.

 

Can anyone reccommend if I should get the .309 size die or the one in .308? And if I should go with the 150 gr FP or the 170 gr FP? I am going to try to order everything this weekend.

 

At least 0.309" if not 0.310". The Marlin throats tend to run on the large side.

0.308" will almost certainly be too small.

 

At least a .309. I have an old LEE single cavity C309-160R that I've had for maybe 15 years. You may want to check out Ranchdog's mold for the 30/30. It looks pretty good to me, and I just ordered a 2 cavity mold from him. You'll also want to get a neck expanding die, mine is an RCBS, some people like Lyman's M die.

 

I currently consider the Winnie"94,in 30/30 caliber,with cast bullets,as my pprimary hunting rifle.
The flat nose,large meplat bullet,in my opinion,kills better,and is safer in the tubular magazine.I'm not sure that pointy bullets present a danger,but I am sure that flat bullets do not.
.309 or .310 sizers are for grooved bullets;.308 is for paper patched bullets.
Frank

 

For the Marlin 30-30 I would go with the Ranch Dog TLC311-165-TF http://ranchdogmolds.com/
Lyman 311041 http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm, RCBS .30-180-FN http://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...ngId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3311&route=C12J059 and the SAECO #360 http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/saecoprods.html My Marlin 336CS likes all of these.

 

How about the alloy. Linotype, water quenched WW, #2; any thoughts. I have a large quantity of WW so I was hoping top use them to some degree in these bullets.

 

The major difficulty you might face is if the gun has the Micro-Groove barrel. I don't own one, so the following is subject to correction by those who do. But from what I read, you'll want to run at least two thousandths over bore diameter, and use a gas-check bullet to have any accuracy at all.

Different gun altogether, but in my Savage 340, I run the Lee #308-170-F bullet with a gas check, Liquid Alox lubed, then run through the Lee .309" sizer to seat the check, and re-lubed with Liquid Alox. I use bullet scrap and wheel weights, mixed to no special formula. They're probably about medium-hard.

My two best full-speed loads (neither are max) are 28.0 W748 for 1900 fps, and 22.0 of A5744 for 1950 fps. Both shoot inside 2" at 100 yards.

You can shoot the same bullet with or without the gas check as a small game/plinker load with 7.0 of 700X (easy to remember!) for about 1200 fps and isty-bitsy groups.

 

You can shoot the same bullet with or without the gas check as a small game/plinker load with 7.0 of 700X (easy to remember!) for about 1200 fps and isty-bitsy groups.

I've had intentions to thank you for that tip Rocky ( you gave me similar advice in another thread). I do so now.

I've been using that charge weight of WW-231 in my 94 Winchester w/out a gas check with good result. 1211 fps. It gives the rifle a bit more utility here in Iowa. My son likes to shoot it and will certainly roll a "daytime" skunk or raccoon. I'm not allowed to harvest deer with a rifle here.

A sidenote: I recovered a bullet fired fired from 25 yards at a row of water-filled milk jugs. The bullet was found in jug #7 with no visual upset. These were as-cast diameter from air cooled wheelweight metal.
Two notches up on the rear sight elevator was all that was required to hit point of aim relitive to my full power(near factory load) jacketed bullet loads.

Pay attention to what this man has to say dtu2179.

Cheezywan

 

Ranch Dog's bullet design is both tumble lube and gas checked. It should be a dandy choice. You won't have to size it except for the gas check itself. Definitely do not take a tumble lube design under .310. The small grooves are intended to be self-sizing in the bore and they already are gauged for crushing. I would, in your shoes, use a .310 sizing die in a conventional lubricator and sizer with these bullets, pushing the bullet base down in only far enough to seat and size the gas check. If you have only a straight-through sizing die, like the Lee, then you may find you want the bullets a little harder since you are going to be slightly pre-crushing the tumble lube grooves. The arsenic in wheel weights will let you harden them by quenching them in water. You can try just dropping them into water straight from the mold. That takes very regular timing, though, to provide uniform results. Frankly, I find an oven soak and quench more effective.

The Micro-groove barrel is both praised and cursed by cast bullet shooters. I expect a lot of it boils down to what velocities they are trying to achieve? One trick I used experimentally long ago was to set a little loop of 63-37 fine (.055") flux core soldering wire in the bottom of the gas checks, then heat treated the bullets in an oven sitting in the gas checks. That solder alloy is a eutectic for lead and tin and has the lowest melting point the combination can provide, so it melted well below the bullet alloy melting point. This soldered the gas checks to the bullets. Back then, Lyman gas checks were still straight and not the crimp-on type. My purpose was to keep them on the bullet in flight, and not separating and veering off into the chronograph sky screens. It had occurred to me, though, that the same technique might allow the gas check to apply some rotational torque to the bullet if the rifling was shallow, as with the Microgrooves. That's why I mention the idea here. AFAIK, all the 336's in .30-30 have Microgroove barrels. Not sure about the .308MX?

 

Get those Micro-groove barrels CLEAN. I mean all the copper, or this probably won't work well. The foaming bore cleaners seem to do a good job.

If it won't shoot after that, then you are probably sizing too small, or the mold is dropping too small.

Keep us updated, and best of luck.

 

Thanks for all the input guys.

 

Does anyone know if Lee makes a .310 sizing die, I didn't see one on their site.

 

If it's not listed, it would be concidered a "non-production" item. Lots of good news though. They would make one for you for a price. Or you could open one up a little your self.

Might even be able to make the mold throw them .310 as cast?

Cheezywan

 

If you use the tumble lube bullets, they are already going to have that much extra diameter. Lee will make custom orders, too, but that will cost you more than a standard mold. You can also use the old mold cavity smoothing trick of casting a bullet and drilling the base and attaching a rod to it for a handle. You put it in the mold with a mild abrasive like Remington 40X bore cleaner, and spin it back and forth between your palms. You can widen it gradually that way. It also improves the roundness of the cavities in cherry cut molds. Lee molds are lathe bored, though, so they are already fairly perfectly round.

 

Do you think I should try the .311 size die?

 

No. That's probably too big. The only thing that size that you might shoot are the tumble lube bullets. They are designed to be loaded without sizing and to self-size down two or three thousandths in the throat. They get away with that by having their micro band grooves small enough to crush down easily.

For sizing standard shape bullets, one thing that needs to be mentioned is the harder bullet alloys are a little springy and will come out slightly bigger than a sizing die they pass through. How much depends on the alloy, but I've had half a thousandth or so with a wheel weight and linotype mix. So, you may be just fine with a .309" die as it is? I would try that first. If you don't get what you want, you can call Lee and ask what they want to open a sizer up to .310"? They just have to run a small hone in, so that might not be outrageous? I would give them a call about it?

You can actually do that yourself, by the way, with some oily 600 grit wet/dry paper in a split dowel chucked in a variable speed electric drill. You just spin the dowel in it for a few seconds, rotate the die about a third of a turn and repeat twice to help keep the hole round. You need a way to measure when you are finished. Just lube some of your cast bullets in the alloy you intend to cast with and run one through after each sanding until one comes out the right size. You will want to measure those bullets with a thimble micrometer with a ten thousandths vernier scale rather than with the ubiquitous calipers. You can get one at Enco for about $15. Harbor Freight currently has an inexpensive electronic digital micrometer for twice that, if you aren't comfortable with reading vernier scales.

I have also polished my Lee sizing dies with Dico stainless steel grade buffing compound. Veral Smith recommended it for hardened carbon steel, and it creates a mirror finish. Same split dowel, but with a cloth patch in it to load with the buffing compound. I then soak them for three days in Sprinco Plate+ Silver to provide some permanent lubrication. I sometimes size cast .32 cal wadcutters down for 30 caliber gallery squib loads in such a die. They come out with the surface looking like glass. That probably isn't relevent to function, but it is satisfying to look at.

 

You may also check Ebay for micrometers. I have picked up several quality micrometers there for a really good price.

 

problem chambering lee c309-170 f with gas check

Do you have any problem chambering with the dies you mentioned. I have had problems with this die. I can not seat at col of 2.52. The only way to chamber smoothly is bring it down to 2.33. Way below the proper spec. I can sometimes close the lever with a hard pressure on the lever. Do you have this same experience with these molds?

 

Welcome to the forum. Rules are to join in, have fun, and play nicely with the rest of us kids.

That Lee mold, compared to the 150 grain version, has a very long bore riding nose. If you have a lever gun, I suspect that it may just be having trouble going around the corner coming out of the carrier, where it would be fine in a bolt gun, loaded one-at-a time.

If 2.52" is the COL when the crimp groove is used, then deeper seating puts you at risk of bullet setback in the magazine unless your loads are very light. Perhaps a Lee FCD could cirmp into the nose, but that isn't going to do much for your brass life. This may just not be a good bullet shape for your gun?

 

I have a Ranch Dog 30 caliber mold for the 30-30 Marlin, I size them to .311. If yoiu need a .310 sizer die, take the Lee .309 die, and electric drill, a Cotter Key and some sand paper and widen the .309 die. Do this slowly and check your work often.

I have used bullets cast from Lee molds, as well as RCBS and Lyman molds. Most work very well in the Marlin 30-30.

Jerry

 

I use a Lyman 173gr gas checked bullet cast at 20-1 in a Marlin 336 CB...with 20gr of AA5744 it will shoot a dime sized clover leaf at 50yds

 

I shoot 113gr, 150gr and 170 gr cast in my 30-30's! All Lee Gas checked designs! Get sub MOA with the 113gr, 1.5-2" with the 150's and 1" or less with the 170gr! I run them all at or close to Factory ammo speeds!