Never been able to tell the difference on deer. Both work.

 

What caliber
What weight
What distance
Which cartridge.

When talking about a "soft" cup and core like some of the Speer Boat Tails, all these things matter. For example I use the .308 165 Speer BT in a RAR 308 with a 18.5" tube (had it cut) & with that set up the 165 Speer BT does great whether the Deer are up close or 300 yds. Used on 3 Hogs as well. Under that vel. window it is quite effective.
However, I want something a little tougher when fired out of my 300WM Sendero at 3250 MV up close, about 600 FPS MV difference. All factors I mention matter. So please supply your data, if someone "answers" your question without knowing these things and more will show inexperience for sure.

 

1) Are these two bullets of significantly different construction - different core design?
2) Is the Hot Cor a less frangible bullet that holds together better?

3) If the Hot Cor is a "better" design, why wouldn't they implement it in their boat tail bullets? Why have a better flat-base than boat tail?

Oy Vey! Let's try and educate you here.

1) Yes, they are different. So assuming you are talking only the btsp, and not a magTip, etc. The Hot-Cor is a molten lead poured into the jacket, what others today market as "premium" bonded core construction. They have a tapered jacket for strength. The BTSP's are not bonded, lubed core punched into the jacket. The jacket is thinner, thus tend to expand faster and penetrate somewhat less.

2) Yes, just covered that for you.
3) .... This needs to become a forum rule. There is no BEST, unless a specific person is describing his specific preference. You didn't give a specific anything...
Hot-Cor bullets were well ahead of their time, today everyone has there variation and markets it as the most-est awesome-est premium-est bonded-est brand new invention for hunters. Boat tail bullets have 2 primary markets, 1) Sex appeal for marketers to pitch. 2) very long range shooters.

If you launch a set of 308 165gr speer bullets, one the Hot-Cor, one the BTSP. The drop difference out to 500 yards is only different by about 2". There are 5 in 1,000 hunters out there that can tell that minor difference and they know it is irrelevant. If 2" at 500 yards is the difference between hit and miss for hunting, you had no business taking that shot.

They have different construction, and are marketed for different purposes. Whether or not one is more appropriate than the other is up to the user. Some like very deep penetration, some like shock and awe damage.

Neither is wrong, just have different strengths. I've killed most anything legal to do on this continent. I've used Hot-Cor bullets for most of it. If you want some generalities. Hot-Cor's are for breaking bones and not veering off. BTSP's are for those who can miss bones and hit the pump house.

 

In terms of bullet toughness, you really need to be able to recover bullets in order to judge how well they have held together. Theoretically, the Hot Cor should hold together better, but in many years of shooting both I have never recovered a single one, nor have I ever found fragments of either in a deer. So practically speaking, there's no way to make the "better" judgment. Were I shooting a magnum against something massive like a moose, I'd likely use the Hot Cor, but that would be based solely on Speer's claims and not on any empirical evidence.

 

I have shot both the 150 and 165 grain HotCors through Whitetail deer at close range with 2 different cartridges, a .30-06 and a .308. They held together well and didn't seem to be excessively damaging to the meat. Speer bullets, in general, have not been the most accurate in my experience, but the on-game performance is what I like. Not too frangible, so they penetrate well.

I just built another .30-06 a couple months ago, basically throwing a rifle together from parts, but I did put a new ER Shaw barrel on it. With AA2495 and the 150 grain HotCor, the groups averaged .8". No load development, just a charge that would get the bullet over 2800 fps, and the bullet seated .012" shy of the lands.

With proper load development, I'm sure I could get it to group tighter, but that load will hunt this year.

 

Nothing wrong with trying to figure what bullet might be a better choice. Deer will readily succumb to most any proper weight/caliber projectile that was manufactured for such purposes. This is a fairly thorough guide for bullets by major manufacturers. Simply scroll down (listed alphabetically) and see what Speer bullets are all about. I am something of a fan of their Grand Slam series myself. Here's the link:

Hunting Bullet Guide, Part Two: By Manufacturer

 

too much info, not too little...

I'm genuinely interested in how my question was misinterpreted by a few who answered. Several completely missed what I was asking, so I re-read my question several times, trying to forget that I asked it. My central question was: "how do the Speer Hot cor and BT differ?" And I should have asked it that way. Just like that.

By "elaborating" i only confused the matter. My comments about "any reasonable caliber, any reasonable bullet....," etc, were totally incidental to the question. I was trying to point out that design differences between proven bullets don't usually matter to me. When I see threads about which bullet is "better" I have no interest; I scroll right past them. The reason is that most differences in bullets when it comes to hunting SE US whitetail deer are academic, IMO. So, I was actually saying, "while I usually don't care about design characteristics, the possible differences between Speer Hot Cor and Boat-tail interests me." That's all I was saying. And I'm just as interested whether we're talking about a .204 or a .405. "the right caliber to hunt deer with" isn't part of my question. Totally different matter altogether - one that I personally wouldn't ask about. Hopefully I didn't just further confuse the issue. jake

 

I'm genuinely interested in how my question was misinterpreted by a few who answered. Several completely missed what I was asking, so I re-read my question several times, trying to forget that I asked it. My central question was: "how do the Speer Hot cor and BT differ?" And I should have asked it that way. Just like that.

By "elaborating" i only confused the matter. My comments about "any reasonable caliber, any reasonable bullet....," etc, were totally incidental to the question. I was trying to point out that design differences between proven bullets don't usually matter to me. When I see threads about which bullet is "better" I have no interest; I scroll right past them. The reason is that most differences in bullets when it comes to hunting SE US whitetail deer are academic, IMO. So, I was actually saying, "while I usually don't care about design characteristics, the possible differences between Speer Hot Cor and Boat-tail interests me." That's all I was saying. And I'm just as interested whether we're talking about a .204 or a .405. "the right caliber to hunt deer with" isn't part of my question. Totally different matter altogether - one that I personally wouldn't ask about. Hopefully I didn't just further confuse the issue. jake

Well to answer your specific question, I suggest you click on the link I supplied above and read exactly what Speer has to say about the construction of the two bullets you asked about.

 

Generically speaking, its construction difference. The boat tail version is constructed to do its "best" work way out at the furthest limit of what a given cartridge is built to do. It very likely would over expand up close, and the boat-tail does no good there anyway.

Flat base design is built some tougher so as to do its' best work at more conventional distance for the cartridge.

Choose based on where and what you figure to shoot. A boat tail mostly works best when it is running out of poop. Sub-sonic even.

That's the way I look at it.

Cheezywan

 

Or re-read where I described the construction differences.
One is bonded with a thicker jacket. One is not bonded and had a thinner jacket.

 

Actually, the Hot Core is not a "bonded" bullet. It simply has the core in liquid form when poured into the jacket. They say it helps prevent "slippage" between the two. However the Deep Curl bullet by Speer is said to be "electro-chemically" bonded.

 

However the Deep Curl bullet by Speer is said to be "electro-chemically" bonded.

I'd tend to stay away from that one. There is no way to be able to tell the condition of the battery unless the box has been opened.

Tn and Darkker both said what I said better than I said it. I just didn't read it until you asked it again jakesnake66.

Now you have to stay after school and wash blackboards.

Cheezywan

 

Good. I am glad that we have cleared all of that up and your question has been answered.

You take good care now. Shoot well and shoot often. Please stop by and ask again if you have any other questions.

Cheezywan

 

can i withdraw a question?

i obviously asked a question that was either worded very poorly and therefore misinterpreted, or the question itself is totally confusing to some responders - including my original question and my attempts to clarify.

As for how this matter might be regarded by "experienced hunters," i would consider myself among that group, and the question seems completely legitimate and valid to me. I did not ask for any irrefutable laws or absolutes or anything of the sort. But reiterating what I am asking for isn't helping matters, so I'm not interested in pursuing it any further.

I do sincerely appreciate the feedback I received, and I know more about the two Speer bullets I asked about than I did prior. That's a good thing. thanks, jake

 

No worries. Threads run off into the ditch all the time. Yours will be neither the first nor the last to do so

Good luck with your hunting. I have used Speer bullets of a couple varieties but not really enough experience to answer your questions with authority.

 

I can emphatically attest to the integrity of the Speer Hot Cor, it does exactly what it's advertised as doing, staying together and penetrating with around 60% weight retension.
The Speer BT is totally different, core separation is almost always a factor and they do not penetrate as far, but still work very well, as do Sierra BT's.
BT's, traditionally, are better for longer ranges, so having a bonded core is not really necessary, and in nearly all instances that I've experienced, FB bullets perform better at normal ranges, except NOSLER bullets with their small BT design.
I have used many many Hot Cor bullets, my favourite being the 100gr in my 25-06, perfect for goats, pigs and kangaroo's, all recovered bullets mirror each other, 60-65% weight retension and found on the underside of the hide opposite the entry hole.

Cheers.

 

Kudos to Magum Maniac



I do not mean this as a slight to ANYone who replied. In fact, as stated, I sincerely appreciate all the answers. In their own way, every reply added to my understanding. However, MM nailed it on the head. I was hoping to find someone who could speak directly to the issue from experience. It's definitely worthwhile to read what Speer says about their bullets, and opinions from those with indirect experience can add valuable perspective, as well. But MM's views are an example of what I had in mind when I asked the question. I'm sorry if I didn't ask the question well.

 

I'm not sure where I've bee on this one, but I'll add my drivel to it.

The Hot-core is in actuality a "bonded" bullet since the core is molten when applied, it in effect "solders" itself to the jacket. I have no experience what-so-ever with the Hot Core, but I do have with the SPBT.

I chose the SPBT (85 grain) for my .243 as a prime mule deer and antelope bullet. I was not disjointed with it's performance. Here's one recovered form a Montana whitetail last fall. With blood 'n hair it weights 64 grains.





From my past experience using their 180 grain version in my 30-06AI many years ago, I'd say it's a winner.

Bullets can be over constructed too. Keep in mind your initial and impact velocities at the most likely range you will be harvesting animals at and pick the bullet accordingly.

RJ